New BP owner - looking for tips, tricks, and information about odd behavior?

[scalypasta]

So I got Pretzel the chocolate morph 5 days ago and so far, he's very shy and only really active at night. He's about 4 months old and just under 130 grams. His enclosure is a 116qt Sterilite tub with 5 hides (one humid), a large water bowl, and a base of about 2 inches of aspen bedding. The hides are organized into 3 levels, and receded into a bedding 'hill' giving him plenty of room to burrow as well. The humidity is staying around 70%. Right now, his hotspot is at 80F, because my parents wouldn't let me get his tub set up before I got him, and I ended up having to order a thermostat (which should be here by Thursday 2/4/16). The breeder was feeding him live and it's been 6 days since he last ate. (I tried to feed him f/t earlier unsuccessfully.)

Firstly, any tips on feeding and handling would be extremely helpful. I've handled him once because he was attempting to climb out when I opened the tub, but I had to put him back quickly when someone knocked on the door. He's gone back to being terrified of my every move since, so I think I must have set him down too hard or something? And as for feeding, I've read tons of tips on switching them from live to f/t, but my main question is how to tell if mice have gone bad? Once unthawed and warmed via hot water submersion in a plastic bag, the hoppers I bought at Petco on the day I brought him home smelled a lot, bled a lot, and fell apart every time I tried to pick them up with tongs. I've taken two showers, taken out the trash, and put everything involved in feeding him outside to be thoroughly cleaned later, and I still smell dead mouse. I wasted 3 mice trying to get him to eat, and still have 3 in the freezer.

Secondly, I've heard that there are genetic 'defects' snakes can have that have to do with their movement? For example, the Spider wobble and stargazing. I named Pretzel 'Pretzel' because as many times as I've accidentally scared him, he doesn't seem to be able/like to do the trademark BP coil thing, he just ties himself in knots. And several times when he lifts his head in the air, I've seen him wobble it back and forth a little. It reminded me a lot of the Bearded dragon headbobbing thing that they do as a threat/mating display, so maybe it serves a similar function? I don't have a lot of previous experience with snakes, so I don't know if these things are normal or not. Does anyone have advice or tips on what to look for to know if I should be worried?

Sorry for writing a novel... haha

[CantHelpIt]

Allow him time to settle in, at least a week before you try and feed him again or handle him.
The constant feeding is likely stressing him and until you have a warmer spot than 80 you probably don't want him trying to digest anyways.
As for handling, be assertive with your movements, if you're going to pick him up, pick him up. No indecisive jumpiness as that will scare your snake.
Sit down with him in your lap and leave him be. Let him get comfortable and explore, after about 10 mins you can put him away and try again the next day.

[scalypasta]

The constant feeding is likely stressing him and until you have a warmer spot than 80 you probably don't want him trying to digest anyways.

The feeding hasn't been constant, I spent about 30-45 minutes today trying to get him to eat. I only wasted 3 mice because they kept falling apart. The tails and feet would come off, they'd bleed everywhere from their face and lower belly area, it was a mess. I didn't have any split open, but I figured once they got to be such a mess like that he may not eat them anyway. I was not aware that 80 is low enough to cause issues with digestion- all of the care sheets, articles, and websites I read said anything between 75 and 95 would be fine.

Allow him some time to settle in, at least a week before you try to feed him again or handle him.

I've been leaving him alone mostly. I just open the tub up every few hours to check humidity and temps, feel the hotspot to double-check that the UTH isn't getting too hot, and make sure he hasn't gotten himself stuck or anything, haha. I'm a little paranoid with the already-off temps that something will malfunction and kill him. And I wouldn't have handled him the one time I did if he weren't so eager to be out. As soon as I opened the lid he was halfway out of the tub. If you still think it would be a good idea to lay off a bit more, I will. Thanks for helping.

[dustin860]

You shouldn't spend more then 10 mins trying to feed ... And 116 quart ? I hope that's an error that is far too large .


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[scalypasta]

I asked several locals what size tubs they were using and the 116 is the same dimensions, just taller. Most of the room is taken up by the water bowl and the hides- at four months I was expecting him to be a little bigger, so I gave him larger hides than he needs. I could post pictures of the setup if you think it would be that much too large? In numbers it would equate to about 30 gallons.

[LittleTreeGuy]

Pictures are worth a thousand words. yes, Pictures will help.

It sounds like maybe you got some bad feeders, or were too rough with them. Like was said above, give the snake a few days of good temperature settings, then try to feed again. Put the frozen mouse/rat in a Ziploc baggie all by itself. set that baggie in warm water for about 15 minutes. I find it helpful to sit something a little heavy on it, just enough to hold the mouse (inside the bag) under water. After 15 minutes, dump out that water and put hot tap water into the bowl. Now put the mouse (still in the sealed baggie) into the hot water for about 5 minutes. When you feel the mouse through the baggie, it should feel warm, and soft. No cold spots and not hard. Now you're ready to take the mouse out of the bag and offer it to the snake. You should use some tongs for this because when the snake does strike at it, it's fast and will probably startle you the first time or two. If the snake doesn't take it after a few minutes, you can lay the prey in the tank and leave the snake alone for an hour or so (or overnight if he hasn't eaten in a week or more) and check it first thing in the morning. If the mouse is still there, remove it. Try the same procedure in two or three days.

Hopefully your thermostat comes tomorrow and you can get the hot spot dialed in. You want the hot spot to be around 89 or 90 degrees. You will likely have to set your thermostat to a higher setting as it has to heat through the substrate you are using. The thermostat may have to be set on 93 for example for the substrate on the hot side to reach 89 or 90 degrees. your cool side can be in the high 70's or low 80's. Humidity is good. 50%-60% and even higher (into the 70's) when the snake goes into shed. Some folks keep higher humidity all the time and their snakes seem to be okay.

Handling... Once your temps are accurate and your snake has eaten, wait a few days. You never want to handle for at least 24 hours after they eat. They need that time to digest properly. With a tub that size, your bp will likely be under a hide when you open it up. Lift the hide off of him, and approach him slowly, but steadily from behind or the side. He'll likely pull his head back and just sit there. Just slide your fingers under him and scoop him up. Once he is in your hand, just move slowly, no sudden movements or he'll flinch and then you'll flinch, and then everyone is stressed out. LOL. As said above, then just sit down with him, either on your bed, or a towel, or on your lap, and let him do his thing. He may sit in a ball or coil for 10 minutes, or he may stretch out and start exploring a little. Just keep an eye on him and after 5 or 10 minutes, pick him up and put him back in his tub. The next day, repeat. After a week or two, you can maybe try to keep him out 15 minutes. You'll find some days they seem to enjoy being out and other times, they just want to be left alone... like any pet, or person. LOL.

[CantHelpIt]

The temp you measure should be of the floor surface, not the temp of the aspen just so you know. You may have to crank your heat up to 110 to get a hot spot of 90 on top of 2 inches of aspen. Your snake will burrow/ move the aspen out of the way to sit on the tub directly. Therefore measure your tub surface temps, not your substrate

[hazzaram]

The tub sounds way too big. I don't even have my year old bp in a tub that big. I think you need to get a much smaller tub and also adjust the size of the hides. They don't like larger hides. They like hides that are small and snug; ones that they can barely fit in and touch them on all sides. Look up the black reptile basics hides. Love them.

Also, I wouldn't try handling at all until the snake has taken 2-3 consistent meals. Once your stat comes dial your temps in and let him get adjusted. Once he starts feeding and he's on the right track, then you can start handling.

[Prognathodon]

That doesn't sound like a good set of feeders, either. A little blood leakage is common (and I'll squeeze them sometimes to get a drop or two out to help get a snake's attention), but it shouldn't be a lot, they shouldn't be falling apart, and shouldn't smell much at all - a little animal smell if you sniff them, but that's it. At a guess, yours had started to rot.

We thaw ours uncovered in the refrigerator, and there's no smell. Occasionally the tail or paw on a mouse pink or fuzzy will break, but that happens when they're frozen/brittle. Definitely try different/better feeders! Even the Arctic Mice I've gotten from PetSmart have been better than what you got, and I'm not enthused with them (mostly due to price).


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[PitOnTheProwl]

The temp you measure should be of the floor surface, not the temp of the aspen just so you know. You may have to crank your heat up to 110 to get a hot spot of 90 on top of 2 inches of aspen. Your snake will burrow/ move the aspen out of the way to sit on the tub directly. Therefore measure your tub surface temps, not your substrate

This is wrong in every way!!
You measure your temperature in the surface that your animal can touch. Snakes can and will burrow so if you are getting 90 degrees on top, you are getting cooking temperatures under.
Temperature needs to be taken under the substrate when you are using any UTH options. There also is no need for that deep of a substrate, 1/2 inch is more than enough.
If I am remembering right, the 114qt is the same dimensions of a 41qt but way taller? The height is not needed and may hurt husbandry as far as heating and humidity. For a one that small, a 6qt is enough and net step to a 28qt.