Pastel Pied or Normal Pied?

[Kourtneyhk]

Howdy folks!

So I have a bit of a conundrum for you Pied lovers out there!

I know that there is a group of us ball python lovers who don't consider a snake to be a pastel morph unless it has the lighter, golden/green eyes, but there are others that go based on various factors, such as more yellow than orange blushing, blushed head stamp, etc.

I've never had an issue telling a pastel from a normal apart, until I've mixed the pied gene in there!

First, some pairing info; the mothers were all initially paired with a normal piebald male. About midway through the breeding season, before ovulations occurred, I acquired a pastel pied male breeder, and began pairing him with the females. Fast forward to clutches laid and hatched.

Attached are some pictures of my current 2015 pied morphs. The males I have I clearly believe are pastel piebalds, based on the coloration compared to a normal pied, and one of them has very bright eyes. One female I believe is a normal, and my holdback female is what I'm confused on, as I initially believed her to be a normal due to the darker eyes, but with every shed this girl gets paler and paler and paler, and she screams pastel to me now, but has the darker eyes. She is MUCH lighter and more faded than the female I firmly believe is a normal, and that is what is leading me to wonder. Is she a pastel pied with darker eyes, or is she just a great example of a normal piebald?

Pastel Pied Male #1



Pastel Pied Male #2 (the one with greenish eyes)



Normal Pied Female #1 (just starting to go into shed, so she's a bit darker than usual)



And below, is the Pied female I'm not sure about. Pastel or Normal?





And just for comparison's sake, here is a female holdback from 2014 that I kept. This females parents were a Normal Pied x unproven Het Pied. TO MY KNOWLEDGE, neither of the parents have any other genes in play. The 2014's mother is the same as the above mystery female, and the father of the 2014 (below) female may or may not be the same as the 2015's, as after a couple of breedings, the pastel pied was introduced.





Any opinions? I plan on keeping her and breeding her out, but was curious what others may think, because as she grows, I'm less and less sure that she is a normal.

Thanks,
Kourtney

[BCS]

She looks like a normal pied to me. The markings do not look right to pastel. They are usually more whacked out. I am very sure she is just a normal pied. Normal pieds range in color to dark brown to tan to a yellow, so she just might be one of those brighter pieds.

[Albert Clark]

First of all they are all gorgeous pieds! They ( the 2015's) look like they are normal pieds that the pastel gene has affected in a lighter coloration. Remember the pied gene disrupts regular patterning so I think we may be looking at a combination of the two pied colors working. The pastel has lightened up the normal pied coloration.

[Kourtneyhk]

First of all they are all gorgeous pieds! They ( the 2015's) look like they are normal pieds that the pastel gene has affected in a lighter coloration.

Thanks! I can't get enough of the piebalds, they're my absolute favorite.

So are you saying you think that even the males are normal in your opinion, including the one with the very bright green/blonde eyes? I've had several people tell me the males are definitely pastel pieds, and in person they are so different looking than the normals. Another "indicator" that I've been seen referenced to is the fact that the colored areas on the pastel pieds typically have no black bordering (or it is very greyed out) versus the normals having strong black bordering on the colored patches, which I do see here.

I definitely think both of the female 2015's are normals, but my holdback just has some insane fading on her that I absolutely love and am excited to see how she grows.

[Albert Clark]

Thanks! I can't get enough of the piebalds, they're my absolute favorite.

So are you saying you think that even the males are normal in your opinion, including the one with the very bright green/blonde eyes? I've had several people tell me the males are definitely pastel pieds, and in person they are so different looking than the normals. Another "indicator" that I've been seen referenced to is the fact that the colored areas on the pastel pieds typically have no black bordering (or it is very greyed out) versus the normals having strong black bordering on the colored patches, which I do see here.

I definitely think both of the female 2015's are normals, but my holdback just has some insane fading on her that I absolutely love and am excited to see how she grows.

Hey Kour! No, I think the males with the light eyes are pastel pieds , sorry. I am not so sure about the "black bordering" as a indicator. I do think the holdback female is a normal pied though. Sorry for the confusion.

[Albert Clark]

This is my pastel pied male. He does have the pastel coloration , the green eyes and the small "black borders. I think the parentage and the genetic combo is important in identification.

[Kourtneyhk]

This is my pastel pied male. He does have the pastel coloration , the green eyes and the small "black borders. I think the parentage and the genetic combo is important in identification.

I completely agree with you there! Fortunately, dad is most definitely a pastel pied.

Thanks everyone for your input!