1st lock of the season

[dylanjwicklund]

That still looks like a super cinnamon to me because it's soo brown but I haven't seen an 8ball before so I'm starting to want to do that pairing again lol

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

[dylanjwicklund]

And let me know the results if you can I'm getting pretty excited about this project again

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

[gaiaeagle]

I'm hoping for an 8ball, which is an all black, patternless snake. Genetically, it will act like a super cinny or super black pastel, because the genes for cinnamon and black pastel are allelic, meaning that they are on the same allel, much the same way that the BEL complex works. If you breed an 8ball to a normal, then you will only get cinnamons and black pastels, no normals. From what I have read concerning the color, super cinnamons tend to be more brown, super black pastels tend to be more black, and an 8ball is somewhere in between the two. But trying to get a super cinny or super black pastel is a gamble because of the kinking issues. I've read that this combo is the safest option for visually what I am wanting. There is still a risk, and I am hoping I have minimized the risk as much as possible. We will see.

[Izzys Keeper]

You do know that you won't get supers?

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

You're wrong. You can get supers. They absolutely are compatible. Either your friend was unlucky or didn't have the genes he thought he had. Just like mojave and lesser are different genes but compatible.

Now the color might be a little different but it's the same thing.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

[Izzys Keeper]

Their incompatible and will not produce an all black snake I have seen a few people make the same mistake

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

Might not be all black. Maybe a dark brown but even cinny x cinny or bpxbp can throw brown snakes. Still a 25% chance regardless of the pairing

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

[dylanjwicklund]

You're wrong. You can get supers. They absolutely are compatible. Either your friend was unlucky or didn't have the genes he thought he had. Just like mojave and lesser are different genes but compatible.

Now the color might be a little different but it's the same thing.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

This is a baby from that black pastel to super cinnamon and what I don't get is if they look the same produce the same snakes and are allylic I'm starting to think thier is no 2 genes but one


Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

[Izzys Keeper]

This is a baby from that black pastel to super cinnamon and what I don't get is if they look the same produce the same snakes and are allylic I'm starting to think thier is no 2 genes but one


Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

That's a debate that has gone one for a while. BP and cinny were from 2 different imported snakes owned by 2 different people if I remember correctly. One was bred to darker snakes. One was bred to lighter snakes. It is uncertain if these snakes are the same morph so it is generally assumed and accepted that they are AT LEAST different lines or allelic to each other. There are many morphs that are similar to each other than can work with each other. Some can vary from each other, while others look more similar.

Lesser and butter was thought to be different a few years back but now generally are accepted as the same based on how the combos of them look the same. Same with coral glows and bananas

I'm still on the fence with BP and cinny but I personally like to think they are the same. Or at least that the lines have been crossed so many times that it it difficult to distinguish them from each other many times

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

[SmoothScales]

This is a baby from that black pastel to super cinnamon and what I don't get is if they look the same produce the same snakes and are allylic I'm starting to think thier is no 2 genes but one
Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

Do you have pictures of the parents? It could've just been really crap luck because even though mathematics claim 50% will be Cinnamon and 50% will be 8-Balls, it's really that each egg has a 50% chance to be either and not a guarantee that you'll have a clutch that is half of each.

As for Cinnamon and Black Pastel being the same gene...I have to disagree. Yes, they produce similar morphs that are sometimes hard to tell apart. Some of them, while similar, have pretty easy to pick out differences, though.

For instance

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/andromeda/

vs

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...r-emperor-pin/

Yes, the snake's both have similar coloring and patterning, but one, to me, looks much more like a water color painting that's gotten damp with the colors bleeding into each other while the second one starts off with a much sharper contrast. Maybe it's just me.

[rafacacho]

It is not a super, the 8 ball x normal pairing will give cinnys, B. Pastel and normals. A super gives all with the same gene. It looks like a super cinny or a super B.Pastel, but it is not a super. Just like mojave x lesser isnt a super. Mojave x mojave is a super, all of the offspring will have the mojave gene.

Enviado desde mi XT890 mediante Tapatalk

[dylanjwicklund]

That's a debate that has gone one for a while. BP and cinny were from 2 different imported snakes owned by 2 different people if I remember correctly. One was bred to darker snakes. One was bred to lighter snakes. It is uncertain if these snakes are the same morph so it is generally assumed and accepted that they are AT LEAST different lines or allelic to each other. There are many morphs that are similar to each other than can work with each other. Some can vary from each other, while others look more similar.

Lesser and butter was thought to be different a few years back but now generally are accepted as the same based on how the combos of them look the same. Same with coral glows and bananas

I'm still on the fence with BP and cinny but I personally like to think they are the same. Or at least that the lines have been crossed so many times that it it difficult to distinguish them from each other many times

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Thanks that helps alot

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk