How to feel about the ethics of the spider wobble?

[Kokorobosoi]

Not to derail the thread, but I'm disabled. That doesn't mean I have a poor quality of life. In fact for years I was in a wheelchair with twitching in my lower limbs and a lack of limb control. My body didn't go where I told it to. The worst part of that part of my life was when people treated me like a deformity, not a person.

I have a spider morph who has no wobble. He is my favorite. Not because of his color, but because of his temperament.

[JodanOrNoDan]

I am an example of how someone's opinion can change due to exposure. Originally I was dead set against breeding spiders or even owning one. I had experienced too many bad things in my horse days and had formed the opinion that breeding anything with a defect was just plain irresponsible. I bought what was advertised as a Super Mojave from a now questionable source that turned out to be a Super Mojave Spider. He is basically a train wreck. In the beginning I couldn't even watch him when he began to corkscrew. I decided not to get rid of him though and to study him instead, besides my daughters fell in love with him. His disposition is wonderful and he has quite the personality for a snake. At any rate I soon realized that this "defective" snake could teach me a lot about ball pythons. Now, by observation, I personally believe with spiders for whatever reason have a hard time telling which direction is up, and that the crazy stuff only starts when they are worked up about something such as feeding or there is something wrong in their environment. I now had a ball python that could tell me when something was wrong. I know when he has defecated, is hungry, not happy with his hides, etc. This little snake taught me to begin to recognize things with my "normal" snakes that I just not see before. He makes a wonderful pet for my daughters and a great barometer of my own husbandry skills. I like him so much that I was given a x-mas present of a Lavender Spider this year. He has the same temperament as my first one. He also wobbles but is not a train wreck. Long story short, both these guys will be bred next season. I will breed them because in my opinion they make wonderful pets especially for a new keeper because they will "tell" you when something is wrong. I do not think it is unethical to breed them as pets. To release one into the wild however would be a mistake. The only thing I would recommend is that if someone decides to sell spiders they need to make it very clear to the buyer what they are getting.

[blue roses]

I have a spinner blast male, he has spider in him, but no wobble. I just bought a enchi firefly, and it has no spider in it. Eventually i will breed them, and hope that the wobble gene needs the two parents too carry spider to show the wobble. If i'm wrong please correct me. i have seen a few wobbles but the snakes eat and drink and seem to do well, so i'm not too concerned. I've seen a few fire spiders and they are very pretty.

[JodanOrNoDan]

Spider == wobble. They all have it, they only differ in the degree it is expressed at the moment. No one has been able to "breed it out" that I am aware of. Other extreme pattern reduction morphs also have it. It is somehow "genetically attached" to the pattern change.

I am actually surprised that pinstripes do not wobble.

[Chkadii]

I do not judge those that breed spiders or consider them unethical, however the wobble is disturbing for me personally so I abstain from owning or breeding them myself. I wouldn't be comfortable selling a snake with a bad wobble, and I wouldn't want to keep it. Rack space is too valuable, and the wobble would be too upsetting for me. (To clarify, my justifications are why I won't produce them - I'm not saying I'd turn my back on a spider in need of rescue if I came across one.) It's a shame, since spider combos look so good and are so popular, but for me the risk of even one bad wobble outweighs all the benefits of producing spider combos. I'd like to think my stance is beneficial overall, though - there's one less competitor selling spider morphs!

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[ArabianOak]

my opinion is why not leave it alone? Isn't a normal ball python beautiful enough? I saw all kinds of combos at the last pet expo but walked away thinking that the "normal" ball is actually the best looking.

[BCS]

Not to call anyone out here but breeding dogs with hip and breathing problems is totally a different thing. Not being able to breathe or walk properly is painful... the wobble is not. I would never own a great dane for example because their hearts are too small for the size so it cannot keep up giving great danes a short life span. To me that is unfair. But the wobble does not effect a spider or woma in any negative way. I am bringing woma into this because I have one that has a worse wobble then my spiders. I do not think the wobble brings "personality" to a snake and I believe this statement is just used as an excuse for the wobble. My grandfather died from dementia, beside forgetting a few people and bit of memory loss, his personality never changed. The wobble does not effect my spiders or my woma at all. They may miss their meal but it's nice to see these guys not give up and hit the rat on the second try. I do breed these guys and right now my woma who is also fire is breeding to my vanilla. If I get a woma vanilla cream, wobble or not, I am super excited to see the outcome.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Back on track please just like the last thread on ethics this is not a DOG breeding ethic thread if you wish to create a dog breeding thread you can do so in the appropriate forum.

[Solarsoldier001]

I've been breeding for a few years now and I have never witness a severe wobble from my spiders or spider morphs. I've witness a little bit here and there but nothing like some have described. I've seen some corkscrew and some wobble just a little but nothing id say severe. I guess I would need to see a severe case in person to really make a judgment call. But if it wasn't for breeding I would have never made some of the coolest looking BPs.









I guess do what your heart tells you. Would you still love these babies if they corkscrewed all the time and never stop wobbling?


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[Darkbird]

I guess I'm permanently on the fence on this. I have a spider female, and I will breed her. Also have a champagne female, who shows no wobble, that I've bred already. But I'm still not entirely fine with the wobble. The possibility of hatching a severe case, or having one grow into a severe case, is always on my mind when I consider the pairings. So for now I just limit the number of animals I own that have the possibility of the wobble. And try and educate myself as much as I can.