I'm doing Spider x Spider

[Galaxygirl]

Spider has been reclassified as a Dominant, meaning no super form. Spider x Spider doesn't make spiders with more than normal derp. They won't have any less​ than normal derp, either.

I think people use different definitions for the term "super". I don't know if super is supposed to mean just a visual difference in the heterozygous vs homozygous form of the gene (as seen in Pastel vs Super Pastel), OR that super = homozygous form regardless of how the homozygous form looks compared to the heterozygous form of that gene.. Take Pinstripe, which is Dominant, but also is believed to have a homozygous form that looks just like the heterozygous form. Would people still call that a Super Pinstripe?

[aLittleLessButter]

By super, I mean a homozygous gene. Having 2 spider genes on the allele

[darkranger69]

For pinstripe as well no homozygous have been proven and that morph is out since maybe 15 years meaning for me the same as for the spider gene: it s lethal. Think about the leopard , some animals proven homozygous throwing 100% offspring leopard; but the heterozygous and homozygous phenotype are the same. I really believe the big breeders ahave done those pairing long time ago without giving their results. In a dinker project what is the second step right after hatchling babies with the dinker phenotype? Proving if there is a super form or not!

Galaxygirl i sincerely wish you good luck on this project and i will be so happy to be wrong.

[aLittleLessButter]

For pinstripe as well no homozygous have been proven and that morph is out since maybe 15 years meaning for me the same as for the spider gene: it s lethal. Think about the leopard , some animals proven homozygous throwing 100% offspring leopard; but the heterozygous and homozygous phenotype are the same. I really believe the big breeders ahave done those pairing long time ago without giving their results. In a dinker project what is the second step right after hatchling babies with the dinker phenotype? Proving if there is a super form or not!

Galaxygirl i sincerely wish you good luck on this project and i will be so happy to be wrong.

I honestly think there is something wrong early during meiosis when the spider gene is homozygous. I think for the same reason it causes neuro issues, It doesn't copy properly and therefor doesnt develop properly if at all so many don't develop enough to be laid or if they do, most are slugs. I think the white snake people were seeing were just the result of a homozygous animal that made it further but still not being fully developed. Just my theory.
Side note though: I believe pinstripes were proven to have a viable "super" by more then one big breeder. I won't be the one to drop names as I'm just going off of what I heard

[Galaxygirl]

For pinstripe as well no homozygous have been proven and that morph is out since maybe 15 years meaning for me the same as for the spider gene: it s lethal. Think about the leopard , some animals proven homozygous throwing 100% offspring leopard; but the heterozygous and homozygous phenotype are the same. I really believe the big breeders ahave done those pairing long time ago without giving their results. In a dinker project what is the second step right after hatchling babies with the dinker phenotype? Proving if there is a super form or not!

Galaxygirl i sincerely wish you good luck on this project and i will be so happy to be wrong.

Homozygous Pinstripe is up for debate imo.. I spoke with Evan Stahl who has a Pinstripe male that has sired over 100 hatchlings that have all carried the Pinstripe gene. He believes he has a homozygous Pinstripe. I haven't looked into it much further than that, though, and wouldn't bet on it. You can speak with OhhWatALoser about their homozygous Pinstripe project to learn more about it.

I wouldn't call Super Spider lethal, as that is misleading. I would rather say it's not believed to be viable, as in a Super Spider can't be created. The whole "lethal" tag has made everyone think they're going to create dead white babies, slugs, or rotten eggs from a Spider x Spider breeding, which hasn't proven to be the case.

Also, please everyone understand I am not trying to prove a homozygous spider, so no need to wish me luck on proving you wrong.. If you had read what is in this thread, you will see that the evidence that I have gathered has shown that a homozygous spider is not viable. I am doing this breeding because I love the spider gene and have some spider combos that I want to make. I am also doing this pairing because I've heard completely opposite stories as to what will be the results of this clutch. Perfectly viable eggs vs. a clutch of slugs, rotten, dead white babies.

[SmoothScales]

By super, I mean a homozygous gene. Having 2 spider genes on the allele

Apologies. I skimmed through and obviously missed that the discussion was more about the genetics and less about the visual. As far as the pairing goes, Kevin from NERD did a small blurb on it in this video.
https://youtu.be/-fhnR5YdGdI?t=1m1s

[Galaxygirl]

Apologies. I skimmed through and obviously missed that the discussion was more about the genetics and less about the visual. As far as the pairing goes, Kevin from NERD did a small blurb on it in this video.
https://youtu.be/-fhnR5YdGdI?t=1m1s

Thanks for the video! Haven't seen it before.

[aLittleLessButter]

Apologies. I skimmed through and obviously missed that the discussion was more about the genetics and less about the visual. As far as the pairing goes, Kevin from NERD did a small blurb on it in this video.
https://youtu.be/-fhnR5YdGdI?t=1m1s

Haha it's all good. I've not seen this video either. Good input.

Update on the eggs: one is starting to dimple despite my humidity never dropping below 99% (on two digital gauges). Still candles with good veins like the rest though. Added some press n seal to be safe

[tacticalveterinarian]

Great thread and discussion! I've done Spider x Spider combos without any noticeable changes in fertility or viability.

[tacticalveterinarian]

Also something interesting to note, in terms of embryological development, both pigmentation and the neurological system develop from the neural crest. So, it's not that surprising that some morphs are linked with some neuro issues (spider, woma, champagne, powerball, super sable, etc). The neurological system is also very sensitive to heat, for example some temperature spikes during incubation, especially late incubation can cause hatchlings to have neuro issues. I incubate my eggs at a lower temperature and most of my spider combos have very limited neurological issues. However, this is just my own experiences and isn't based on any research or studies. It would be interesting to hear from those who have used a male Spider with really "bad wobble", incubated at a lower temperature and tracked the offspring to see if there's less issues.