quarantine discussion every opinion counts

[Jhill001]

I think it also depends on what kind of a collection you have. Do you have just a corn snake?

Then maybe you just wash your hands with some sanitizer and you're good to go.

Do you have 1000s of dollars worth of various reptiles?

Then you'd be darn right you aught to take every precaution necessary.

Here's the thing, yes vet bills for one snake are best avoided by taking precautions. However, am I going to tell someone new who's only supply line is the local pet store that their snakes are all going to die if they decide to buy bedding there? Or that they need to wear a face mask and rubber gloves to go shopping? No that's an easy way of convincing new people that reptiles are disease ridden and difficult to keep.

This is one of those advice given is based on level of keeper for me.

When I was younger I kept 14 different species of reptile and amphibians at a point, from a variety of sources, breeders, pet store, wild caught. I only ever quarantined maybe 2 or 3 of them. (of course this was before the whole extinction fungus that is infecting amphibians going on now). Most things that did end up dying died mostly because of husbandry mistakes made by a 12 year old.

For me the biggest and most important step to preventing disease in a collection is the selection of the animal. Properly examining the animal and the animals around it. Now in the internet age this becomes almost impossible. But its just my experience.

[Snake Judy]

I absolutely agree, it is far to late for this. Google psdeudomonas aeruginosa in green tree pythons they will be a forum that pops up discussing disease in captive bread reptiles. This is the article that got me thinking

I checked it out and I get what you're saying. I do think exposure to a balanced level of bacteria in a well-maintained naturalistic/bioactive enclosure is likely to promote stronger immune systems and some resistance to common bacteria, but I don't think that this would negate the necessity for quarantine and other precautionary measures for the many reasons already stated. It's also likely to multiply your problems if not done properly.

[Doggtyred]

The amount of quarantine you do depends on how at risk you consider your collection, and how tolerant you are of illness in your collection, and how tolerant you are of loss of your collection. The "fieldcraft" of isolation techniques being referred to here as quarantine are pretty universal across other medical/lab realms. The more virulent or deadly the pathogen, the more extreme the precautions.

I have two snakes - a regular ball, and a juvenile super pastel. 3, about to be 4 canines.. I dont go to reptile shows. I buy my feeders and supplies from a single source. I handle my adult before I handle my juvenile, but they are in separate cages in the same room. I've got more invested in equipment than I do in snakes, and while I enjoy the two snakes I have I will not be devastated if something unforseen happened to them. To be honest, we had the second snake tanked adjacent to the first snake before I became informed about the practice of quarantining new additions, so that ship had already sailed. Will consider it for a third addition if there is one. I dont have a snake room, we've incorporated our snake enclosure into a living space. We allow visitors to handle, but if they have other snakes themselves I would inquire about their collection's health. I handle ours at least twice a week, and part of that involves a head to tail exam for parasites or illness. I check the feeders for parasites before they go in the cage. I would consider my approach relaxed but informed, and vigilant. If I had 10 racks full of 3 gene breeders and their clutches, and this endeavor paid my bills, I'd probably be much more hyper vigilent in my approach.

Other people here are hard core herps and snakes are their passion. They LOVE what they do. They have collections that cost them tens of thousands to obtain and build, and likely would cost even more to replace (even though individual specimens are irreplaceable, behaviorally). They value their collection over the hassle of strict isolation techniques, and for them it is worth it. Separate rooms with sealed air systems, stripping down in the garage when coming from pet stores and ultra strict quarantine strike me as hypervigilant, but for those owners it is personally justified.

I suggest knowing the techniques and concepts of hygiene and husbandry, as cleanliness is the first step to preventing problems and disease transmission. Keep the tanks and substrates clean, and disinfect as part of your routine. Simply using soap and water with vigorous friction/scrub for 30 seconds is an effective handwashing technique that has been validated in healthcare for preventing transmission of infection. If you want to do a full 5 minute betadine or hibiclens scrub as if you were going into the OR, you can, but I feel thats overkill unless you ARE GOING INTO the OR. Everything you will be doing as a snake owner will fall under the "clean" portion of the spectrum, not the "sterile" end of the spectrum of cleanliness, so dont waste your time doing things that add 90% more effort with perhaps 1% more return unless you have an overwhelming reason to do so. If you are going to quarantine, do it right. Separate tanks, separate rooms, separate tongs, separate cleaning supplies. Perhaps even do your handling and maintenance on a different day than your regular collection. When done with your quarantine snakes, go change clothes, shower and wash your clothes that you were wearing. If you do all your snakes (established AND quarantines) on the same day, do everything with your established snakes first before messing with the quarantine snakes. Every step along the way go from clean places/tasks to less-clean places/tasks so that you aren't taking contaminants in the wrong direction. If you want to really take it to the next level you should wash your hands between handling ANY of your snakes.

Once you have a good understanding of the consensus of best (as well as exceptional) practices, adjust the implementation to suit your lifestyle, priorities and perceived value of your collection and investment.

[Doggtyred]

I checked it out and I get what you're saying. I do think exposure to a balanced level of bacteria in a well-maintained naturalistic/bioactive enclosure is likely to promote stronger immune systems and some resistance to common bacteria, but I don't think that this would negate the necessity for quarantine and other precautionary measures for the many reasons already stated. It's also likely to multiply your problems if not done properly.

What you are advocating has a strong basis in human immunology. The joke is to prevent childhood allergies and boost immune systems is to give children puppies, let them play in the mud, and put them in a daycare where they get exposed to every cold virus known to man. BUT... exposure to deadly or virulent pathogens does not boost an immune system, rather its detrimental to the organism and can/does cause death. Thats why we vaccinate humans, to prevent death and disability from virulent common pathogens, like Flu, which kills thousands of very old, very young and very sick people every year. Thats why we dont advocate exposing people to HIV, hepatitis viruses, shigella, pseudomonas or vibrio to boost their immune systems - in the process of developing an immune response the host can experience eventual death or significant disability.

Most laypeople aren't in a position to culture and identify all the bacterial flora in their enclosures to determine a "balance", or cultivate and properly maintain such a balanced microbiome. As such, for the average lay owner you should focus on hygiene and clean husbandry first and foremost.

[distaff]

What you are advocating has a strong basis in human immunology. The joke is to prevent childhood allergies and boost immune systems is to give children puppies, let them play in the mud, and put them in a daycare where they get exposed to every cold virus known to man. BUT... exposure to deadly or virulent pathogens does not boost an immune system, rather its detrimental to the organism and can/does cause death. Thats why we vaccinate humans, to prevent death and disability from virulent common pathogens, like Flu, which kills thousands of very old, very young and very sick people every year. Thats why we dont advocate exposing people to HIV, hepatitis viruses, shigella, pseudomonas or vibrio to boost their immune systems - in the process of developing an immune response the host can experience eventual death or significant disability.

Most laypeople aren't in a position to culture and identify all the bacterial flora in their enclosures to determine a "balance", or cultivate and properly maintain such a balanced microbiome. As such, for the average lay owner you should focus on hygiene and clean husbandry first and foremost.

Agree, Polio, tetanus, etc are problems, and the best solution to some of these may be vaccines. However, I think Judy's theory has validity even if we don't have all the specifics nailed down. I was listening to a vet interviewed on HerpNationRadio several months ago (wish I could remember his name). His position seemed to be that snakes aren't sterile themselves; they carry most of these pathogens at low levels all the time. They get sick when one takes over, but the bacteria/virus wasn't necessairly new to the animal. That said, I still think quarantine and related practices are good habits; but, if snakes in an isolated collection fall ill, it may not be because something from outside snuck in.

[bks2100]

Quarantine is a risk mitigation. Your quarantine process should be appropriate to your situation, your snakes, your goals and your budget. I had one ball python, then I bought 3. For me it would have been silly to quarantine 3 new snakes to keep them away from the one, especially when the one was not a super expensive snake. And in this situation I'd be doing a lot of rearranging and it'd be a lot of hassle to prevent a snake from something that there isn't a huge risk of anyway. At this point my biggest risk is a vet appointment and treatment for a few snakes. Now 5 years from now I'll hopefully have a collection that's worth a bit of money and is a considerable amount of snakes, at that point I will for sure have a rack across the house for new purchases and have a full quarantine process in place.

[Ax01]

i follow the procedure from the second post in the quarantine stickie thread - http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...antine-process.


beyond that, i handle/feed/care for qt and my non-qt animals on different days.


i get some live feeders weekly and some supplies from a local mom and pop pet shop (that has a reptile area). i don't strip off my clothes, but sanitize and wash my hands well after. i've been to one reptile show and did the same afterwards. except for my newest snake, everyone will be outta qt a little after the new year. now that i have a small but some what i consider valuable snakes in my collection, i will probably strip and shower right after. Lol.

[gaitedappy]

For my personal collection, I wash my hands between snakes, and use paper towels for cleaning to prevent any germ transfer. As of right now I'll admit my quarantine practice is kind of lax, but I plan on stepping it up as my collection grows. I believe that even for established collections, frequent hand sanitization between handling of animals is important.