Adult Size and Age

[reptileexperts]

I put a turtle in a 10 gallon aquarium and it never outgrew it. True story, on its 10th birthday it was still the size of a quarter, and happy and healthy!

OK OK, Boelens are a rare thing in this hobby, they are expensive, extremely slow to age, and people have constantly been unsuccessful breeding them in captivity, but that's beyond the point. Your question raises a point that needs to be answered: Growth potential does not result in a guarantee. The retic world is well aware of this with the vast majority never meeting there true potential, and some being over achievers. I'd say at 4 years old, your Boelen's will likely still grow given it has food and heat to increase its metabolism. As a general rule with Morelia, you can increase the food size, without much hurt, but if your snake begins to grow outwardly instead of in length, its a good time to cut back the food intake. My Irian Jaya pair are incredibly slow growers despite being fed large prey items their entire life, just some do not grow that fast. My male just turned 4 and is only about 4 ft in length, but healthy, and just gave me a perfect shed. The female is about 5' and the same age. She's starting to add girth, so her food will slow down a little bit. . . the take home message from this ramble is quite simple. Some snakes will get big, some will stay small. Just like in humans the rate at which they metabolize will vary and with that variation will come growth variation.

On a side note, truly jealous of a 4 year old Boelen's. Please post pictures, they are a true gem in this hobby!

*side bar* If I was in your case wanting that size range of snake, I would've went Black-headed Python personally.

[Felidae]

boelenis need to keep in special climatic conditions, in this case to increase the heat is not a good idea. With good feeding schedule and good husbandry, she'll get the size. With 4 years she just a teenager.




/But now I'm sad a little bit.. I love Boelens, and I collected as many informations what I could, and visited the closest people who keeping them to learn everything before I get one. In that topic the question is: Will my boeleni female growing up to X size? Most of the people who answered don't have an idea about that snake and don't gave the proper answer for the question (Respect for the exception). And what I see I go against the mass, cause people like that answers. Everyones problem that the OP wanted that snake for get the size what he like. We're in the same shoes.. We keep different ball morphs because we like their look. We keep reptiles because they're beautiful and interesting in our way, not because they bring back the ball if we throw./

[Alicia]

First . . . A Boelen's?! Is it too late for me to board the snake fan envy train? That's my dream species right there

Reptileexperts and Felidae really said it for me best. Boelen's are very different and do have very different requirements from other pythons -- and being a cooler-climate, higher-elevation animal, they do grow slow. Especially a female. Your girl is young, there is plenty of time. You've probably already seen this, but in case it has more tips: http://www.boelenspythons.com/home.html

[leosantare]

Thanks, everyone for your support. Although, I'm not really understanding the replies. Perhaps, I shouldn't have even mentioned my size preference with pythons and the species of python I have, since it's off topic.

I just would like to know if a keeper grows up a python slowly by slightly underfeeding them, can they still reach there potential size down the road, or can doing this permanently stunt their growth?

Meaning, if you have a python that on average should be 6ft in length at 4 years old, but the python is only 4ft in length at 4 years old due too underfeeding. If the keeper then picks up the pace with feeding safely, can the python still reach it's potential size at say 6 years old instead, or is it too late to try and catch up?

I have asked exotics vets and dozens of people when at what age pythons should be full grown and most say 4 years old.

I do believe I grew my boelens up slowly by offering mice/rats that were on the smaller side, just because I was nervous about overfeeding. I thought is would be better to grow her up slowly then too quickly. Although, I have always been consistent with feeding her, always 1 item every 7 days since she was 3 months old.

Also, what do you think about feeding two medium rats that both add up to 200 grams V.S. one large rat that is 200 grams? Some say due to fat content large and extra large rats should be avoided.

I would post some pictures but don't understand how to. Thanks

[reptileexperts]

4 years across all python species is not accurate and its wrong to make such assumptions by a keeper or a vet. The thing is, not a lot of people are experts in the topic of Boelen's. The co-author of "The complete carpet python" who wrote this book with Nick Mutton, Justin Julander, is one of the leading experts and has spent time studying this species in the wild.

All that aside, another species that little is done with in captivity is the Timor Python, a favorite of mine. I only mention this because many people tried to breed this snake and have failed or given up. Why? Because they made the assumption that they are breed ready by 4 years of age. The correct answer seems to lean toward 7 years for Timors. Boelen's are likely to be the same. Due to their cooler climate, they do not metabolize as quickly as other species. This is crucial to understanding the species. This slower metabolism means less meals consumed in the wild, and slower growth as well as a longer period till they are ready to breed. I hope this gives a little more information to answer your question.

Do not force an increase in metabolism by increasing heat - you will likely find that the snake stays on the cooler end of the cage. Again, just my two cents.

[EL-Ziggy]

All snakes grow differently but I believe an animal that's fed a healthy diet will eventually reach it's designated size. Animals that are fed more generously will get there faster vs. a more conservatively fed animal but they'll both get there. I don't agree with power feeding but I can understand safely accelerated growth. My yearling coastal carpet python was a bit undersized when I got him from the breeder. He was being fed a small meal every 10 days on average. I increased his prey size and feeding frequency. He's not quite as large as the average 18 m/o coastal but he's coming along well. I believe he'll still end up in the 7-9 foot range that most coastals grow to but I'm cool if he's a little over or under the average size. For your more mature python you could offer larger meals on the same 7 day feeding schedule or feed her your regular sized meals a bit more frequently. If you feed her every 6 days instead of every 7 days that gives you an additional 8-9 feedings per year.

[DennisM]

I hope DennisM checks in. He has a lot of Carpet experience. He may have some good info and advice.

Unfortunately, I have no experience with Boelen's. All I can say is I have never had a morelia in my collection that experience a 2 ft increase in length after the age of 4. It's impossible to say if this snake is truly undersized, 7 ft is well within normal parameters for this species I believe. I did acquire a pair of JCP some years ago that were severally undersized for their age, 3 year olds that looked like yearlings, they never attained normal JCP size, but did experience considerable growth both in length and girth in my care. I'd guess they increased their length by probably 1/3 once put on a proper feeding regime. So if this snake is truly undersized due to a minimalist diet, I guess there's hope.

[DennisM]

Having said all that in my previous post, I don't think we can draw much from my experiences with m.s.mcdowelli and m.s.cheynei in this case. Boeleni are not your typical carpet python. As noted by others, they have quite different requirements due to their natural range's environment. I find Reptileexpert's comments on the Timor's maturity age interesting. Though they've been in the hobby for a while now, I think there is still much to be learned about Boeleni in captivity. The limited success breeding them supports this.

to OP, I would up the prey size if the larger rats fit into the "about the same girth as the snake" theory. At 250-300 grams the rats have not yet moved into the "just a fat rat" category. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out, perhaps your experience will help add to the hobby's collective knowledge of this somewhat mysterious species.

[gaitedappy]

Thanks, everyone for your support. Although, I'm not really understanding the replies. Perhaps, I shouldn't have even mentioned my size preference with pythons and the species of python I have, since it's off topic.

I just would like to know if a keeper grows up a python slowly by slightly underfeeding them, can they still reach there potential size down the road, or can doing this permanently stunt their growth?

Meaning, if you have a python that on average should be 6ft in length at 4 years old, but the python is only 4ft in length at 4 years old due too underfeeding. If the keeper then picks up the pace with feeding safely, can the python still reach it's potential size at say 6 years old instead, or is it too late to try and catch up?

I have asked exotics vets and dozens of people when at what age pythons should be full grown and most say 4 years old.

I do believe I grew my boelens up slowly by offering mice/rats that were on the smaller side, just because I was nervous about overfeeding. I thought is would be better to grow her up slowly then too quickly. Although, I have always been consistent with feeding her, always 1 item every 7 days since she was 3 months old.

Also, what do you think about feeding two medium rats that both add up to 200 grams V.S. one large rat that is 200 grams? Some say due to fat content large and extra large rats should be avoided.

I would post some pictures but don't understand how to. Thanks

To start off the species and size preference aren't off topic as every snake and every species is different. I think that you are having a difficult time getting a concrete answer because there simply is not one available.

Comparing one species to another is very difficult because every species is different in pretty much every aspect of life. Sure, there are some generalizations that can be made, but may not fit into every situation. Yes, 4 years can be general for some species, some species will continue to add length for the entirety of their lives, even if that length is a minuscule amount.

The reason the vets you talked to have you the responses for pythons in general is probably because of limited snake experience, and chances are, no experience with boelens pythons. Remember, the species you have is very rare in the pet trade, and little is known about them in the captive environment in general.

As far as whether or not you stunted her growth, I doubt it as long as your feeders are an appropriate size. Snakes are not mammals, so they do not grow in the same predictable ways one can expect from say, a cat or dog. It is also important to reiterate that there is little experience in the hobby with your species so it is possible that they simply have a slower growth rate than that of more well known carpet python species.

To address the question of feeders, do what you feel is best as long as they are an appropriate size for your snake. If the extra large or large rat is better for your situation and your snake is healthy then do that. It tends to be easier all around if you can feed with a single feeder than multiple (speaking from experience one is much less extra work).

Good luck in your endeavors, and do try to be patient and don't be too disappointed if your snake does not hit the 8ft mark. Every animal is different and may not exactly fit into generalized averages.


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[leosantare]

I put a turtle in a 10 gallon aquarium and it never outgrew it. True story, on its 10th birthday it was still the size of a quarter, and happy and healthy!

OK OK, Boelens are a rare thing in this hobby, they are expensive, extremely slow to age, and people have constantly been unsuccessful breeding them in captivity, but that's beyond the point. Your question raises a point that needs to be answered: Growth potential does not result in a guarantee. The retic world is well aware of this with the vast majority never meeting there true potential, and some being over achievers. I'd say at 4 years old, your Boelen's will likely still grow given it has food and heat to increase its metabolism. As a general rule with Morelia, you can increase the food size, without much hurt, but if your snake begins to grow outwardly instead of in length, its a good time to cut back the food intake. My Irian Jaya pair are incredibly slow growers despite being fed large prey items their entire life, just some do not grow that fast. My male just turned 4 and is only about 4 ft in length, but healthy, and just gave me a perfect shed. The female is about 5' and the same age. She's starting to add girth, so her food will slow down a little bit. . . the take home message from this ramble is quite simple. Some snakes will get big, some will stay small. Just like in humans the rate at which they metabolize will vary and with that variation will come growth variation.

On a side note, truly jealous of a 4 year old Boelen's. Please post pictures, they are a true gem in this hobby!

*side bar* If I was in your case wanting that size range of snake, I would've went Black-headed Python personally.

I had a black Headed female before I got the female Boelens, which is one of my favorites. Although she died at 7 years old from FLD. Her underside actually started to turn green and was passing neon green urates. She was 8.5ft and by no means fat which my vet at the time agreed. I was feeding her 1 large rat every 7 days, which is why I raised the question 1 large rat vs two medium rats. In the end, I don't think large rats are bad and my black head just got FLD with me doing things correctly. After she passed I wanted to get another python and reached out to many about my 8-11' size range and heard the boelens is just as big as the BH and more heavily bodied. Well, this doesn't seem to be the case. My female boelens who turned 4 years old 30 days ago is about 7'3" and I just fed her a 186gram rat and feel that it may have been to large, I think I will back down to 170grams.