Reptiles incapable of feeling attachment/emotion?

[redshepherd]

(please move topic if it's in the wrong category)

I just watched the documentary about a crocodile named Pocho with an apparently deep bond with a man. Obviously not something that happens every century. I guess I wouldn't be surprised if everyone's already seen it.

Unlike the grizzly man (who was mauled and eaten eventually) and lion whisperer, who both just go into nature to hang out with wild bears/lions that they didn't previously know, this guy saved the crocodile's life when the croc was young. The croc was shot by hunters and dying, and the man spent 3 years nurturing the croc back to health.
When the croc was fully recovered, the man repeatedly attempted to free the croc in different rivers, but the croc would return to his front porch in the morning, not unlike a dog. So the man has since spent the last 20 years visiting and swimming with Pocho. He says that Pocho is very intelligent and remembers games that they play.

That's just a very very quick intro. You guys should watch the whole video! It's true, if the croc wanted to eat the man, it probably would have happened in 2 or 3 years of their daily visits in the water... It's been 20 years, and not only has nothing happened to him, the croc continues to show his attachment to this particular man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyOqSosiKS8

Reptiles have very little ways to express their internal world to be comprehensible to us, their brains are formed and wired in in a completely different way than mammals, so there's no basis for us to firmly claim that they're incapable of feeling "emotion", whatever the function or definition is for reptiles. Just like for mammals though, different categories of reptiles have different levels of intelligence... so I wouldn't be surprised if crocs are one of the more intelligent species.

[Ax01]

i remember seeing this pix a few years back and thinking "totally photoshop."



it's nice to know that it was real, the story it and everything. (imma have to watch that vid after work.) it's even better to know that these animals are capable of such attachment and love.

as far as my BP's, i don't think they're there yet. i think they associate me with food and warmth right now. they have a better association with their warm hide - like if they poop in there, they'll leave and hide out somewhere else b/c that guy will come and clean it up. then i'll sneak back in to my warm hide.

[distaff]

Beautiful photo.
Will try to watch the video tonight.

I've seen other videos with people who work with them in rescue, who say crocs are VERY intelligent. This is the first I've heard of a trusting relationship, however.

In my opinion, we underestimate animals. One of my favorite books growing up was Konrad Lorentz's King Solomon's Ring.

[Tsanford]

If this isn't new, I remember seeing something like this (if not this) on TV a couple years back. Really makes you think!

[redshepherd]

it's nice to know that it was real, the story it and everything. (imma have to watch that vid after work.) it's even better to know that these animals are capable of such attachment and love.

as far as my BP's, i don't think they're there yet. i think they associate me with food and warmth right now. they have a better association with their warm hide - like if they poop in there, they'll leave and hide out somewhere else b/c that guy will come and clean it up. then i'll sneak back in to my warm hide.

It must be extremely rare, but it show that they are capable though. There is also a theory that the bullet in the croc's head just happened to damage a part of the brain in charge of instincts/violence. But then if that were the case, he wouldn't be able to hunt other animals properly either. So who knows.

I've seen other videos with people who work with them in rescue, who say crocs are VERY intelligent. This is the first I've heard of a trusting relationship, however.

In my opinion, we underestimate animals. One of my favorite books growing up was Konrad Lorentz's King Solomon's Ring.

I'm still surprised, even though I shouldnt be! They seem like they can be very intelligent. I agree, the majority of people do underestimate animals- especially reptiles, imo.

If this isn't new, I remember seeing something like this (if not this) on TV a couple years back. Really makes you think!

Yeah, it's a few years old. Pocho has since passed away in 2011 soon after this documentary was filmed. It makes me think that.... I want a croc. LOL. (joking..)

[distaff]

Thanks for posting that video.
Beautiful.
BF liked it too.

[gameonpython]

The thing with reptiles is that they have very simple brains. Of course they have emotions. Some have a wider variety, some only have one or two emotions. For example, my tree frogs feel anger, fear, and I'd have to say they feel pretty content basking under their lamp. Anger comes out when I do something they dislike, such as touching them, or simply being around them in some cases. They show me their disapproval by little croaks, puffing up, and hitting/kicking me with their cute froggy hands. I know they are fearful when their eyes get large in reaction to something scary, when they shoot pee, and when they sporadically jump away. If hunger is an emotion or feeling, then they definitely feel that too! Unfortunately, I don't think whites tree frogs have much intelligence. It's amazing how they survive in the wild.

My ball python can also feel certain emotions, such as fear, curiosity, and comfort. I'm sure he can feel anger too, though nothing has ever happened in his life to anger him. Fear is pretty obvious when he balls up and sticks his little head in the middle. He does this when I take him out of the cage, or when something unexpected happens. He expresses curiosity throughout the night, and when i take him into an unfamiliar setting. He shows this by exploring his cage, periscoping and tongue flicking. I think all ball pythons feel pretty comfortable in their hides. I find he has a level of intelligence. He understands how to climb on things, and I think he can recognize me from others. For example, if I let a friend hold him he starts reaching for me. Not because he loves me, but because he is familiar with me.

My uromastyx is quite fascinating. She is far more intelligent than the frogs and my ball python. Along with more brains comes more feelings. What I can tell is that she can feel fear, anger, tiredness, curiosity, and she can absolutely relax. What I can not tell for sure is her ability to feel deeper emotions such as love, joy, or attachment, but I do think this is a possibility. She is an incredibly intelligent creature. She has an established routine, down to times and everything. How she can do this without a clock I will never know! She has food preferences, something my frogs do not. This may be partly instinct, but when she hears a bird outside she flattens herself to the ground.

The things our reptiles do fascinate me, even the way they live and exist. The adaptions they have made to survive in the wild is simply amazing. So yes, I believe that reptiles are definitely capable of feelings and emotions.


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[redshepherd]

The thing with reptiles is that they have very simple brains. Of course they have emotions. Some have a wider variety, some only have one or two emotions. For example, my tree frogs feel anger, fear, and I'd have to say they feel pretty content basking under their lamp. Anger comes out when I do something they dislike, such as touching them, or simply being around them in some cases. They show me their disapproval by little croaks, puffing up, and hitting/kicking me with their cute froggy hands. I know they are fearful when their eyes get large in reaction to something scary, when they shoot pee, and when they sporadically jump away. If hunger is an emotion or feeling, then they definitely feel that too! Unfortunately, I don't think whites tree frogs have much intelligence. It's amazing how they survive in the wild.

My ball python can also feel certain emotions, such as fear, curiosity, and comfort. I'm sure he can feel anger too, though nothing has ever happened in his life to anger him. Fear is pretty obvious when he balls up and sticks his little head in the middle. He does this when I take him out of the cage, or when something unexpected happens. He expresses curiosity throughout the night, and when i take him into an unfamiliar setting. He shows this by exploring his cage, periscoping and tongue flicking. I think all ball pythons feel pretty comfortable in their hides. I find he has a level of intelligence. He understands how to climb on things, and I think he can recognize me from others. For example, if I let a friend hold him he starts reaching for me. Not because he loves me, but because he is familiar with me.

My uromastyx is quite fascinating. She is far more intelligent than the frogs and my ball python. Along with more brains comes more feelings. What I can tell is that she can feel fear, anger, tiredness, curiosity, and she can absolutely relax. What I can not tell for sure is her ability to feel deeper emotions such as love, joy, or attachment, but I do think this is a possibility. She is an incredibly intelligent creature. She has an established routine, down to times and everything. How she can do this without a clock I will never know! She has food preferences, something my frogs do not. This may be partly instinct, but when she hears a bird outside she flattens herself to the ground.

The things our reptiles do fascinate me, even the way they live and exist. The adaptions they have made to survive in the wild is simply amazing. So yes, I believe that reptiles are definitely capable of feelings and emotions.


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Definitely agree with you! The fact that the reptiles I've had in my life all have unique personalities and quirks is very telling as well. Even though they're silent and don't show expressions in the way that humans interpret as emotional, I'm sure there is more going on than most people estimate. If you've read my OP post with the video link, it's about Pocho the crocodile and his apparent ability to even feel attachment/an actual relationship with other beings. But then, crocs seem to be one of the more highly intelligent reptiles (at least relatively). Ball pythons seem to a bit more basic than that...