Calico Vs Sugar

[Haley3k1]

Is there a difference in the calico and sugar morph in your opinion? I've seen multiple gene calico and sugar morphs. They seem to look a bit different but not by much. I'm tempted to think that they are different lines of the same morph. From the morphs I've seen, sugars seem to have a smoother transition of white up the sides and calicos seems to have a bit more freckling if that makes sense. I've been very interested in calico and sugar morphs. I just got a pastel sugar and might get a calico just to see the difference in hatchlings. Curious to hear other BP breeder's and enthusiast's opinions.

[MarkS]

My opinion... It's the same mutation. There are a lot of different genes at work making up an individual 'look'. Anything from the shade of yellow in the background color to to the distribution of melanin in the pattern, to how many alien head patterns make up the sides. These 'extras' may have a an effect on the overall look of the individual, but they don't have any effect on the specific mutation. So I say, get whichever one is cheaper and breed it to a superior example of whatever has the overall look that is most pleasing to you.,

[Aercadia]

There are really two schools of thought on the Calico/Sugar debate.

1) Some people believe that they are different genes altogether, with similar visual effects.
2) Some people believe that they are the same gene.

Here's what we KNOW:

A) The Sugar gene was isolated by RYV in the late nineties (exact year unknown)
B) The Calico gene was isolated by NERD in 2002
C) The effects of the two genes are visually similar enough to be described interchangeably

Now, whether this is a case of two breeders isolating the SAME gene at separate times and in separate locations, or whether the origins of each gene is entirely different, we basically have no way of knowing until we have the ability to map out the entire genome of the animals.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Some people (like my husband) swear that they can see a difference, and that the two genes affect other genes differently. Some people (like me) fail to see such a marked difference that it's very clear or consequential whether the genes are different or not.

Either way, it's a beautiful gene and adds a lot of fun to the mix!

[aalomon]

I agree that they are the same thing. There may have originally been slight differences between the lines before the gene pools mixed, but but I highly doubt they are separate mutations.

[Haley3k1]

Thanks guys for all your opinions so far! Glad to hear that majority think it's the same gene as I do. Still tempted to get a calico just to compare lol. I think just as pastels have lemons and citrus's, that sugars and calicos can be the same gene with a slightly different effect. Might be fun to see which line I like more and maybe put an end to the debate.

[ajmreptiles]

Here's Mike Wilbanks' blog on his opinion of the sugar calico debate http://mikewilbanks.com/ballgame/201...eet-as-sugars/

I still have mixxed opinions on the subject but I know I would rather work with sugar over calico

[OhhWatALoser]

Breed a sugar to a Calico and prove out a sugar Calico by breeding to a normal, if it produces nothing but sugar/Calico looking offspring, then we ask are we able to tell the difference between the sugar and Calico offspring or do they all just look pretty much the same?

If they are alleles of each other and the produce the same looking offspring more or less, it doesn't matter much if they are technically different, just like butter/lesser. But since there hasn't been a proven super Calico, super sugar, or sugar Calico, there is still a chance they are seperate genes completely. I've noticed there is only a handful of reported Calico x Calcio breeding with no follow up of the offspring and I can't find any sugar x sugar or sugar x Calico.

So unless someone is holding back info, there not really much out there to answer if they are the same or not. Can't just go based off looks, examples being the 3 main axanthic lines and the incompatible with common hypo lines.

[KitaCat]

Breed a sugar to a Calico and prove out a sugar Calico by breeding to a normal, if it produces nothing but sugar/Calico looking offspring, then we ask are we able to tell the difference between the sugar and Calico offspring or do they all just look pretty much the same?

If they are alleles of each other and the produce the same looking offspring more or less, it doesn't matter much if they are technically different, just like butter/lesser. But since there hasn't been a proven super Calico, super sugar, or sugar Calico, there is still a chance they are seperate genes completely. I've noticed there is only a handful of reported Calico x Calcio breeding with no follow up of the offspring and I can't find any sugar x sugar or sugar x Calico.

So unless someone is holding back info, there not really much out there to answer if they are the same or not. Can't just go based off looks, examples being the 3 main axanthic lines and the incompatible with common hypo lines.

I'm extremely tempted to try and do this... I may hold back a single-gene Calico if I get one this season, and see if I can't get my local breeder friend to sell me the next single gene sugar he produces. I can't justify putting much money into it, but it would be a fun little side project. I'm a huge fan of both Calico and Sugar.

Personally, from the examples I've seen, they do seem slightly different. This is a big generalization, but from what I've seen, usually:
Calico - Messes with the overall pattern more, sometimes going all the way over the snake's back. They often have part of their body with a more "normal" pattern, while the rest is completely different or almost patternless altogether. Tends to have more of a "smokey", gradient-type look.
Sugar - Tend to be higher white, kind of look like someone dipped the snake in a big bowl of sugar - hence the name. They tend to look primarily "normal" (or like whichever non-calico genes they possess), with the Sugar coming up the bottom/sides of the snake and messing with the pattern a bit.

Here are a couple of examples to show what I'm seeing:

[Aercadia]

That Cinnamon Sugar looks delicious! <3

[TheSnakeEye]

I for one say they are the same and would purchase either of the two as long as the snake, visually, is what I wanted. I have seen people with high white animals selling them as Sugars and I've seen others selling them as Calicos. To me there is absolutely no difference. Natural variance and quality is what changes to me. Same with Lesser & Butter, Mystic & Phantom, het Red & Green Pastel, Coral Glow & Banana, list goes on and on...