Is keeping snakes humane?

[queenelvis82]

Hello all!
First off I do have two snakes, a Suriname Red Tail and a Ball Python. I love them so much and provide a comfortable home for them so that they can be happy and healthy. However, I do want everybody's opinion on wether or not keeping these reptiles in captivity is best for them. Even though many snakes that we call pets are captive bred and are accustomed to living in enclosures and used to people, I can't help to think that we are depriving them of their natural inclinations. I do believe snakes are smart enough to know that responsible owners provide them with safe surroundings and will not hurt them, but truth is, their brains are tiny. Most of their actions are by instinct. Their natural behavior to feed, hide, regulate their body temps etc.. depends on us to provide it for them and deprives the animal to instinctively seek out their survival needs.

So, by keeping these wild animals as pets, is this humane for the animal or do you think that they would be better off in their natural environment where they rely on themselves for survival.

I believe that a snake can be perfectly happy in captivity and in the wild. Just curious on what others think. Plus, I think this will be an interesting conversation for all us snake owners.
Cheers!

[tbowman]

Captive snakes have it made compared to snakes in the wild. Our snakes don't have to worry about predation at all. There is a reason that many wild snakes are quick to bite, because in the wild they are actually in danger of being eaten throughout their whole life. Wild snakes are almost always riddled with parasites, both internal and external. They are often exposed to extreme temperatures (this is survivable but probably not ideal), and are usually much thinner than captive snakes because they don't have a constant supply of food.

[DVirginiana]

The fact is that being in captivity doesn't keep most snakes from acting on their natural inclinations. In the case of BPs, their natural inclination is to hide until another need forces them out into the open. Thermoregulation? We provide them with hides over various temperature spots so they don't even have to quit hiding to thermoregulate. Food? They may occasionally come out looking around feeding day, but typically we feed them before they even leave the safety of their hide to 'hunt'. The only thing that they may not get to act on depending on the keeper would be mating urges, but not every snake would mate in the wild either, and those that do are at far greater risk than the ones that mate in captivity.

Being primarily sedentary predators with simple brains is actually what makes them excellent candidates for captivity. As long as their basic needs are met, they routinely lead healthy lives that are longer than those of their wild counterparts. Where captivity becomes inhumane is when the animal is not allowed to meet its basic needs. IMO the perfect example of this is the orca. They have complex social needs that we can't recreate simply by sticking two whales together, the instinct to roam vast areas that we can't provide, and a diet that we cannot mimic properly. All of this leads to stress behaviors and an undeniably shorter lifespan in captivity than in the wild.

The argument could be made that captivity is inhumane for reptile species that are new to captivity, because there is almost always going to be a high death toll for animals being siphoned off wild populations when the exact husbandry parameters are unknown. But for species such as BPs that are very well established in captivity, the only excuse for their needs not being properly met is negligence.

[8_Ball]

^^ What DVirginiana said. I can't stand PETA and other groups saying a hamster or ferret is OK to keep as a pet but not reptiles. Ball pythons are basically becoming domesticated in a way I think. Not all reptiles do well in captivity just like not all mammals do but the ones who do that thrive and exceed their lifespan prove they can be kept in captivity without a problem. There is a huge difference between an orca and a ball python. Ball pythons live a pretty decent life with us humans if kept correctly but they hide 90% of the time which can be mimicked in captivity. An orcas natural habitat (the whole ocean) cannot be duplicated in captivity. A dark, tight termite mound can be.

[bcr229]

Some wild snake populations are endangered due to destruction of their habitat by logging, development, etc. Captive breeding and keeping of these snakes should be encouraged so these species and locality variants aren't lost forever.

[Reinz]

?...............I do want everybody's opinion on wether or not keeping these reptiles in captivity is best for them.......I can't help to think that we are depriving them of their natural inclinations. .........!

First off, if not for captive breeding you, we, most of us would not have exotic snakes to even consider this thought, or could afford the snakes if all were wild.

There is a reason nature gives 8-12-20 eggs to a clutch, and 20- 30 babies to a litter. Because the majority will not live long past birth due to predators.

What I'm leading up to is this, since the live bith success rate is much much higher than the natural wild, as well as the on suing months most of these Captive snakes are not deprived at all, unless abuse or neglect is involved. They have all of their needs met except for total freedom. But do they really WANT to wander the jungle? Or do they care as long as their needs are met?

[kiiarah]

This is a very interesting question, and one I go back and forth on frequently. On the one hand, I hate the fact that he is trapped. On the other, I do feel that there is something to be said for the fact that he will always be safe and cared for. I wonder all the time what he would choose if I could ask him. I like to think he would choose safety and security. Then sometimes I catch him trying to explore the area outside the glass and he looks so confused as to why he can't get to the things he sees outside his tank.

It is a valid point that they prefer hiding to exploring, but I have to admit that sometimes I feel that twinge of guilt that somehow his rights are being violated, as I really do feel that all living things should have freedom of choice. When I feel that way I try to remind myself that he wasn't taken from the wild and put in a tank, he was bred in a home in the city and would have gone to a different home if he hadn't come home with me. Maybe it is a case of anthropomorphizing, and I am just projecting the fact that I would hate to be shut in a tank onto him. It is worth remembering that the desires and values we have are not necessarily shared by all of our animal companions.

I really do feel that my little guy is in a good, healthy situation with me. I just wish I could know that he agrees. But hey, maybe this question is sort of like when people say that questioning your sanity is proof you are sane. Maybe questioning your ethics in keeping the animals you keep is proof you are the right kind of keeper. Maybe just wishful thinking.

I would still say to feel proud that you are providing him good care. We all see the awful classified ads for rehoming snakes that show photos of enclosures with one hide (or no hides) and no heat source (or the incorrect ones). That could have been your snakes had you not chosen to be their keeper. You have not deprived them of anything. Perhaps the pet trade has, but you are in no way at fault. If anything, it is admirable that you take the time to wonder if he is happy, instead of treating him as an object to be entertained by like some. I guarantee he is safer and will be healthier with you than he would be if he were in the wild.

[DVirginiana]

It doesn't pertain to snakes so much as reptiles in general, but I have a box turtle that I rescued from the wild. This is a slightly different situation, but I feel like it applies to the ethics of the discussion. As an ecologist I am generally very much against taking animals from the wild, but she was completely blinded by eye infections and a severe RI when I found her, and by the time she was physically able to return to the wild (about eight months later) we had moved out of her home range and she had started associating humans with food.

Turtle doesn't display any of the signs of an animal that is stressed by captivity, such as fixating on one food item, attempting to escape her enclosure, or aimlessly wandering, which is something I've heard people say some w/c turtles will do in an attempt to get back to their home range. She doesn't even sleep 'properly' anymore; instead of huddling into her shell, she will often go to sleep with her neck and limbs completely stretched out (making me think she was dead on several occasions). Most importantly, she is curious about absolutely everything around her and willing to investigate new things much more quickly than a wild turtle would. I think all that points to her having some level of understanding that she is completely safe and can explore her surroundings without being cautious.

I often wonder if she prefers captivity to the wild, and if she still feels an instinctual pull to seek out certain food sources or hiding spots on her old territory that she will never see again. Based on her behavior, I think that not having the stress of starvation or predators outweighs any stress that might be caused by keeping her in captivity though.

[scalrtn]

I look at it a bit like the process of adoption, or even emigration (as in, encouraging/fleeing one troubled spot for security and safety in another). The human population has exploded, needs homes and, in the process, destroys wildlife habitat. Kingsnakes, as an example, have virtually disappeared from Florida and Iowa. I know of several breeders who are maintaining locale-specific colonies in captivity. I think the practice is noble because, in the wild, Kingsnakes (if they're lucky) reach an age of about 9 years, whereas they're capable of doubling that expectancy if well-cared for in captivity. I've seen 3 kingsnakes in my rural neighborhood in the past few months, and all were DORs, run over by cars. One respected naturalist laments the untold number of kingsnakes that get buried alive every time a new housing development goes up.

[wolfy-hound]

First, I disagree that a snake "knows" that the keeper is providing for him and won't hurt the keeper in appreciation. That discounts the fact that a snake usually acts on instinct and if you stick your hand in and for whatever reason that snake is cranky or sleepy or hungry and bites you, it's not as if that snake decided it hates the color hide you gave it. It's just doing what snakes do. They don't generally sit there thinking about whether they should appreciate what they have or not.

Secondly, a snake in the wild is constantly struggling to do one thing and one thing only. It wants to survive. It needs water, food, heat and a secure place that it won't get eaten. The snake you own wants exactly those things. It doesn't want a pretty flowery water dish. It just wants water. It doesn't care if that rodent was raised with loving tender care, it just cares that it's enough to feed him and doesn't fight back too much(frozen thawed rarely fight back much, heh).

Ball pythons are not really domesticated. They're identical in make to wild pythons, and the only differences between a wild and CB ball python are learned responses(CB have learned being picked up isn't going to end in them being eaten) and health(generally wild will have more infestations and less nutrition than a CB). Keeping several generations of BP doesn't make them domesticated, especially when they haven't been bred with any inclination towards more "domestic" behaviors or shape.

We keep pets(all pets) because we like to have the animal around. Some animals we keep because looking at them gives us pleasure(fish and birds). Some because we use them(horses and dogs). Some because it gives us comfort to hold them(a cat). Or just because having the animal in our life makes us happier.

I believe we have a responsibility towards any animal that we keep to provide the best life we can. For a ball python we have to realize this doesn't mean a giant open well lit aquairum... but a warm space that allows them to feel secure and relaxes.

ANd I disagree wholly with all the "Orcas don't belong in captivity" myth. The ONLY reason that people care about dolphins and orcas is BECAUSE of the animals that have been in captivity. People used to shoot them for fun and No One objected at all to it then. Not until the days of FLipper and Shamu did anyone start to care. I've seen a lot more than most people about Seaworld and such and they do a lot of things to make their whales comfortable and they DO generally live just as long as whales in the wild(longer in many instances). I wouldn't mention it, but since there's several responses that bring it up, here you are. It's my opinion and I won't respond back to any commentary on it here.

But overall, I think reptiles have very little cognitive ability to think about whether it is in captivity or wild, and simply is content as long as it's needs are being met. The difference is that a captive snake is usaulyl not subjected to any of the many dangers and stresses that wild snakes have.