RI: Clean out her nose?

[Skiploder]

Everything you typed did nothing for me. I will follow my vets instructions. After all your just reading someone else's abstract and applying it to your own theories. People will alway have their own opinion, since my vet has theirs I will follow it.

Why tell someone to go against their vet, when you yourself are not a vet, and probably (in assuming so bear with me) have no medical background

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Yeah, I can't do a darn thing about your reading comprehension skills.

Let me try to help you out:

A real research scientist shows in a study that Vapor Rub makes little furry animals get sicker by plugging their noses with snot. It also makes small kids sick.

Sites that sell eucalyptus oil caution inhalation may result in death.

Those aren't aren't my theories. That's a peer-reviewed study and a warning used word for word on virtually every site that sells eucalyptus oil.

No lester, I ain't no vet...nor did I ever claim to be one... but I'm also not an angry dude who apparently can't draw bone simple conclusions either. People who have been on this site for more than one day can attest that there is no one on this board who recommends regular exams with qualified reptile vets...nor shares their experiences with the same.... than I.

[LestertheLesser]

To answer your question, I did read the article, the entire article. And like a science, it's can all be tested and re tested and different results found. As far as I know direct testing on snakes has never been done by anybody, so your claims are just that, your claims. In fact most people say they see good results to no results. As far as I have found no one has had any negative effects eith their snakes using the method. So in all reality your "scientific" claims are far from being just that. Rather your idea in your head. That has none of your own proof, just articles by people you more than likely do not know. I'm not saying your wrong for your idea more so that your telling people to go against what their vet says, multiple people's vets that are all telling them the same thing.

I have looked up both ingredients and have seen the warnings and all of that, but I'd be willing to bet you still pop a pill to help your sickness even though it's side effects are ten times worse then what the pill is treating. You seem very intelligable about snakes so I will be following your posts!


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[Skiploder]

To answer your question, I did read the article, the entire article. And like a science, it's can all be tested and re tested and different results found. As far as I know direct testing on snakes has never been done by anybody, so your claims are just that, your claims. In fact most people say they see good results to no results. As far as I have found no one has had any negative effects eith their snakes using the method. So in all reality your "scientific" claims are far from being just that. Rather your idea in your head. That has none of your own proof, just articles by people you more than likely do not know. I'm not saying your wrong for your idea more so that your telling people to go against what their vet says, multiple people's vets that are all telling them the same thing.

I have looked up both ingredients and have seen the warnings and all of that, but I'd be willing to bet you still pop a pill to help your sickness even though it's side effects are ten times worse then what the pill is treating. You seem very intelligable about snakes so I will be following your posts!


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Lester, one of the things some of us have found over the years is that there are a lot of reptile vets out there. Some are excellent, some are good and some are just plain bad. We've watched some really good antibiotics be rendered ineffective because vets don't culture infections....nor do they consider that RIs can have several causes - not all bacterial. We constantly see people come here for help when vets have screwed them out of hundreds of dollars and cured nothing.

We've also watched them both over and under emphasize IBD, and ignore more prevalent diseases (that's a whole separate issue).

And we watch them give out bad advice.

The Vapor rub thing was linked to a lot of controversy several years ago. The tried and true remedy that even my parents slathered on my chest when I was a kid was found to be causing kids to get really sick. When the studies came out, the studies were attacked by physicians paid for by Proctor and Gamble. In the end, the studies were upheld because researchers proved the stuff could really cause a worsening of respiratory conditions.

Here's the thing Lester, if something has the potential to cause problems - why even risk it? If a vet is doing their job, and thinks that inhalation therapy may be beneficial, their are other ways to do it that carry none of the potential risks.

There have been some excellent results from the nebulization of F10sc in proper dilutions. The beauty of F10 is that it's antibacterial and anti-viral. Even if the vet prescribes antibiotics without a culture, F10 can deal with the possibility of a resistant bacteria or a virus.

I read the posts and the how to for the Vapor Rub/Euc oil treatments and the first thing that struck me was that many of the animals being treated were never diagnosed by a vet as having a bacterial RI. Snakes make a lot of noises - they can click, wheeze and huff when stressed and we have a lot fo people who pop in here frantic that something is wrong with their animal, when nothing really is.

In the absence of symptoms such as congestion, bubbling, real labored breathing, etc. I'm not convinced that ANY treatment does anything. Unless a vet properly diagnoses an RI, how do we know that some of these snakes were even sick? Or whether it was bacterial, virus or even fungal?

Anyway, we've collectively beat this horse to death. My advice is to be cautious and always question the advice you're given - that applies to a vet as well as anyone on a forum....and yes, that includes me. If a vet does something that doesn't add up, call him/her on it, and ask the members here who may live in your area for alternative recommendations.

[DVirginiana]

To answer your question, I did read the article, the entire article. And like a science, it's can all be tested and re tested and different results found. As far as I know direct testing on snakes has never been done by anybody, so your claims are just that, your claims. In fact most people say they see good results to no results. As far as I have found no one has had any negative effects eith their snakes using the method. So in all reality your "scientific" claims are far from being just that. Rather your idea in your head. That has none of your own proof, just articles by people you more than likely do not know. I'm not saying your wrong for your idea more so that your telling people to go against what their vet says, multiple people's vets that are all telling them the same thing.

I have looked up both ingredients and have seen the warnings and all of that, but I'd be willing to bet you still pop a pill to help your sickness even though it's side effects are ten times worse then what the pill is treating. You seem very intelligable about snakes so I will be following your posts!


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First off, as someone who has had to choose between life-altering side effects and a potentially life-threatening illness: No, not all people pop pills to fix a problem and ignore the side effects.

Secondly: scientific studies are PEER REVIEWED. This means that a panel of experts in whatever field the paper is in evaluate it and the claims it makes for consistency, methodology, and the ability to REPRODUCE the results. This is key; it's the reason that famous study linking autism to the MMR vaccine was debunked and ended in a lawsuit and the effective blacklisting of the author. When someone publishes something that others cannot reproduce, it gets dragged out into the light. And that case was an instance of actual fraud and data falsification; so it was a deliberate attempt to fool the peer reviewers.
Any study that makes claims like that will have gone through intense scrutiny. Unless you have reason to believe the authors intentionally falsified data, you have no logical basis for claiming that paper doesn't show a concrete correlation between the vapor and increased respiratory symptoms.

Finally: Why do people automatically trust everything every a vet says? I realize that they are typically qualified in their field, but that doesn't make them infallible experts on every single reptile species. If your doctor told you to do something with serious side-effects and your friend said "Hey, I had the same problem and my doctor prescribed me something different" I bet you'd try another doctor for a second opinion. I don't understand why people don't have the same mentality when they're told their vet is advising something totally off the wall.

A year or two ago I took one of my snakes to the vet who opened the first exotic-specific vet office in the nation to cater to the public (and not zoos) and one of the founders of the first reptile-specific veterinary program in the country. So if anyone is deserving of blind trust, this person is. They told me it was a vitamin deficiency due to diet and wanted to do a B12 shot. I knew this was wrong (because I know what I'm feeding them), so I refused and asked them to do a fecal; the vet got ticked, but turns out she had parasites, not a vitamin deficiency.
I still go to that vet, because on the whole they are very good, but that's just one example of even the most qualified vet being wrong about something.

EDIT: I know someone who tried to treat an actual serious RI with the vabor rub/eucalyptus treatment and refused to go to a vet. The snake died.