Very bad shed/possible RI?

[callie]

I recently took in a young milksnake going through an absolutely terrible shed (dented eye caps, shedding in single tiny scale shaped pieces). She's temporarily in a glass tank with a modified screen top to help hold humidity until her AP enclosure arrives. Cool side is 74-75, warm side is 88 (Ultratherm UTH regulated by thermostat), and humidity is normally around 50%, but I've been misting to help with the shed. I also added a humid hide to the tank. I noticed her out this morning with her mouth open. She was flicking her tongue and would close her mouth, but would open it again a few seconds later. This worried me enough to get her out and listen closely and sure enough, there's an audible popping sound. I have absolutely no problem taking her to the vet and plan to, but the soonest I can call to schedule an appointment is Tuesday because they're closed today and tomorrow. So until I can get her to the vet, what can/should I do? Is it possible that the sound is due to the stuck shed on her face? She's so dry, but if it is an RI, I don't know if it's okay to soak her and I don't want to stress her out. Should she be on paper towels for now? I've never dealt with an RI or a shed this bad and I'm not exactly sure where to start, so any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

[KMG]

It is very possible that the noise is from the shed.

I would not worry to much unless you see stringy saliva in its mouth or atleast some other sign.

If it were me I would live the substrate alone unless its not great for holding moisture, I like cypress mulch.

I would add damp moss to each hide. I have done this for years in my glass tank holding my ball. During a shed I keep it moist and during other times I allow it to dry out before making it moist again. This will create higher humidity in the hides and since this is where the snake will usually be it benefits from it greatly.

[callie]

It is very possible that the noise is from the shed.

I would not worry to much unless you see stringy saliva in its mouth or atleast some other sign.

If it were me I would live the substrate alone unless its not great for holding moisture, I like cypress mulch.

I would add damp moss to each hide. I have done this for years in my glass tank holding my ball. During a shed I keep it moist and during other times I allow it to dry out before making it moist again. This will create higher humidity in the hides and since this is where the snake will usually be it benefits from it greatly.

Thank you, KMG! Is there a safe way to check for other symptoms? I've read about using the stick part of a q-tip to open the mouth, but I don't know how safe/stressful that would be. I'll go ahead and add the moss to each hide like you suggested and keep an eye out for other symptoms for a couple of days.

Not to derail my own thread, but since you mentioned cypress mulch, would you mind sharing where you get yours? I'm currently using aspen, but it's either too shredded and dusty or too chunky and I'd like to switch.

[KMG]

I wouldn't check its mouth just yet. Other sings are visible mucus in and around the mouth and nostrils, and you may see it smeared on the cage walls or hide. You may also find it laying with its nose pointed skyward as this allows them to breath easier when congested, note some snake just like laying like this as my BRB does it often.

As for the mulch I buy mine from Petco and use Forest Floor. I like it because is is well shredded and is a great quality and consistency. It is more than the garden quality, which I have tried, but it is so much better.

I like to keep more natural looking tanks and actually mix Forest Floor, Eco Earth, and Repta Bark together to make a nice earthy looking blend. If holds moisture great and used together it keeps the Eco Earth from being dusty. I mix it to the look I desire in a big tub and then place it in the cages as needed. I even started using it in my tubs with my younger Bloods. When it gets to dry I pour water in and stir. Other than that misting keeps it pretty well hydrated.

The mix is also still good for snake that like to burrow like my Hoggy does. She can root around and dig tunnels all through it.

[EL-Ziggy]

Sorry Callie, I've never dealt with an RI so I can't offer an educated opinion but best wishes with your milk snake.

KMG- I might try that substrate mixture.

[KMG]

Go for it El Ziggy

This will give you an idea of what it looks like.
This is my hoggy tank with just Eco Earth. It would get dry and dusty and was harder to add moisture without making a mess.



This is a newer pic using the mixture. I think it looks much more natural and it really offers the best of the three substrates and prevents some of the bad issues like the dust of the Eco Earth.

[callie]

I wouldn't check its mouth just yet. Other sings are visible mucus in and around the mouth and nostrils, and you may see it smeared on the cage walls or hide. You may also find it laying with its nose pointed skyward as this allows them to breath easier when congested, note some snake just like laying like this as my BRB does it often.

As for the mulch I buy mine from Petco and use Forest Floor. I like it because is is well shredded and is a great quality and consistency. It is more than the garden quality, which I have tried, but it is so much better.

I like to keep more natural looking tanks and actually mix Forest Floor, Eco Earth, and Repta Bark together to make a nice earthy looking blend. If holds moisture great and used together it keeps the Eco Earth from being dusty. I mix it to the look I desire in a big tub and then place it in the cages as needed. I even started using it in my tubs with my younger Bloods. When it gets to dry I pour water in and stir. Other than that misting keeps it pretty well hydrated.

The mix is also still good for snake that like to burrow like my Hoggy does. She can root around and dig tunnels all through it.

Today was cage clean out day and I didn't notice anything smeared on the glass or hides or hanging out in the water. I held her for a couple of minutes before returning her to the tank and didn't see any mucus or hear the sound again, so hopefully it's a false alarm. I'll watch closely the next couple of days. As for the shed, should I just stick with keeping the humidity bumped and damp moss in the hides? She's so dry I could literally hear her moving over my hand, it was almost crunchy sounding.

Your tank looks fantastic! Thanks for the substrate info, I'll definitely be picking up everything you mentioned. My kingsnake and milksnake both burrow constantly and I'll have a dumeril's in July that I've read likes to burrow as well.

Sorry Callie, I've never dealt with an RI so I can't offer an educated opinion but best wishes with your milk snake.

KMG- I might try that substrate mixture.

Thanks, Ziggy!

[KMG]

I would just mist and put in the damp moss.

When I clean my naturalistic cages I remove the waste and all the substrate under and around the area. I go all the way to the bottom of the tank. I then wipe that area with cleaner. Wipe it dry and then replace the missing substrate with fresh stuff from my tub of it.

In my tubs with Bloods sometimes when they release its a total loss and I just dump it, clean it, and then replace fresh substrate. The small releases from my other snakes don't require such action.

[callie]

Update: It's been a few days now and there are still no visible signs of RI. No mouth breathing, bubbles, mucus, etc., and I've only heard the popping sound a couple of times. I'm no expert by any means and plan to continue watching for symptoms.

And now the very bad shed part. I've never seen anything like this and I honestly don't even know where to start, so I'm sorry if this is a big jumbled mess of a post. She's on aspen bedding and has an easily accessible water bowl, two hides that contain sphagnum moss, and a humid hide. I spot clean daily. I've tried soaking her and letting her go through a damp washcloth afterwards multiple times. She is literally shedding one scale shaped piece at a time, as you can see below. The humidity in her tank is currently around 70%. Any idea what I can try next? Is there anything a veterinarian could do for a bad shed? She's active and eating regularly, but she's still really worrying me.





The scales under each piece that she sheds aren't shiny, they're very dull and rough. She's really wrinkled in every turn and looks so dehydrated, despite the raised humidity, soaking, and use of her water bowl. You can see some of the pieces of shed on my finger.



Is this scale rot? I couldn't find many photos of scale rot on a milksnake online, but the edges of her belly scales look crusty. She doesn't live in her own filth or on wet substrate, but she has been spending a lot of time in her humid hide. Would that be enough to cause scale rot?

Again, I'm sorry if this post is a mess. She's a mess and I'm a mess as well. I just want her better.

[bcr229]

I don't think that's scale rot, I think it's just more bad/flakey shed. Unfortunately you can't fix months of bad husbandry and dehydration with a few days of correct husbandry. The good news is that it doesn't look like your snake has an RI based on your observations.

You said she's eating regularly. If she takes f/t then offer the feeders wet, it will help to rehydrate her. I think this shed will just be awful and you'll have to continue helping her with it. Her next one will be a lot better as long as she stays hydrated.