Breeding new ball pythons

[hollowfaiths]

Alright people, so my father has decided he wants to try and breed his female firefly (1100) grams, and a normal male. I've been trying to explain the risks involved with breeding at that size and he wants proof and statistics of egg bound females at that size. Anyone?

[Daigga]

How old is the female? We can argue about possible repurcussions all day, but if shes that size and, say, five years old then it doesn't really matter. If she is only about a year and a half (Im guessing, that's about the size of my girls who are that age) I take the better safe than sorry route. If there's a possibility you could damage the health of your snake, why would you take it? I've heard of females being bred at 1200 grams, and I have also heard that breeding them too soon can produce smaller clutches which persist throughout the females life.

On a different note, why on earth would he be trying to breed with a normal male? A much better route to take could be purchasing a fire male (just an example) and take the next few months to let the firefly grow up a bit more and make sure this new boy is all healthy and ready to breed. This way there's less risk and more valuable offspring (black eyed lucys!). Not that offspring value should be a driving factor, but it would certainly help offset the costs of starting up a breeding project.

[hollowfaiths]

She's about a year and a half old. He just wants to breed them because he wants a return on the investment I think. I have no idea why. I've been trying to dissuade him but basically had no luck.

[200xth]

She's about a year and a half old. He just wants to breed them because he wants a return on the investment I think. I have no idea why. I've been trying to dissuade him but basically had no luck.

I don't know if he'll get a report with statistics. What he will get is a bunch of people with years and years of experience covering hundreds of snakes telling him it's a bad idea.

At that point it's up to him to determine if he thinks he and his two snakes know better than people with years (in some cases 10+ years) experience covering hundreds of snakes.

[Mr. Misha]

If he wants a return on his investment, tell him he's in the wrong business/hobby. I'd suggest cutting his losses while he can before he sinks even more money ito this. He'll probably make more money on penny stocks than breeding BPs.

[bcr229]

ROI on that pairing is pretty poor anyway, it's not like pastels, fires, and even fireflies are hard to find. He could get almost any 1-2 gene hatchling male, wait a year, and get much better ROI if he's looking for $.

[MarkS]

I've bred several female ball pythons that size without any problems, but none of them were younger than 3 years old either. I'm one of the few people who I know have had an actual egg bound ball python, but I doubt that it was size related. Bottom line is that it's his snake, it's his decision but if he fails it's his fault too. Breeding a normal male to a morph female in order to get a return on your investment is probably one of the dumber ideas I've heard in a while.

[BCS]

You would have to breed quite a few BPs to get back an investment with BPs. My friend breeds 10 females every year and he loses money, not gains. After the female lays, there is the cost of the incubator, then the power to run the incubator, hatchling racks and the power to run those, then feeding the baby snakes every week for two months and with a pairing like a firefly and normal, best priced snake he would get is around $250. And he only has 25% odds of that happening. So he would not get his money back breeding these two snakes.

Also, 1100 grams is too small sometimes. 1 1/2 years is definitely not old enough. I highly doubt even if he put them together, the snakes wont breed. Yes, egg bound is a risk but I have seen healthy 1800g females become egg bound. Smaller females are just a higher risk.

[Chkadii]

He should crunch numbers if he hopes for a ROI... It isn't easy.

Let's say there's some crazy odds and you hatch five fireflies from that pairing. They are advertised for about $150-250 each. An incubator, home made, costs about $150. Store bought is $150+, and the least expensive well-made incubator (as opposed to reptibator type styrofoam products) I've found is $425. A nice thermostat to back up the incubator is about $150. Incubation medium, tubs, and various husbandry supplies (clamps, probes, etc.) is about $50. A hatchling rack is about $100 home made, and also needs a thermostat - $130+ for store bought racks. Then there's feeding the hatchlings and possibly not being able to sell them right away or ever, which means 5 rat pinks every 5 days for an indefinite amount of time. $2-5/week. Selling babies that need to be shipped - $10-20 for shipping supplies per hatchling (bags/deli cups, heat packs, styrofoam, using a reptile shipping company...). This doesn't include regular maintenance cleaning supplies like paper towels and disinfectants or expenses like electricity to run the incubator and hatchling rack. We might just break even with the estimated costs above if everything goes well. She may have a small clutch, slug out, or not go at all. If the female becomes egg bound, vet bills will be astronomical. If you get normals or a bunch of pastel males, you're in the red. Low quality hatchlings sell less than high quality hatchlings of the same morph - is the firefly female phenomenal looking? To top it all off, many times the listed price for a snake in ads is not what the snake is sold for, even with high quality examples, so expect lots of hagglers and offers for less than you'd assume they go for.

Don't get me wrong, breeding is super rewarding - just not monetarily rewarding for most.


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[Dave Green]

I would suggest he research which other morphs he likes and buy a quality 2014 male. He can then wait until the fall and breed the new male with his firefly. It won't cost him too much time, and she will get bigger in the meantime. He will then get a bigger and better clutch.