is too high humidity bad? temporarily?

[kitedemon]

86-91F hot spot
humidity 66%
ambient temperture 77-81F

We generally recognize that 80ºF and 60% humidity routinely produces good sheds, why this appears in 90% of care sheets. The math is easy 80ºF has a SVD (saturation vapour density) of 25.4 gm/m3 60% of 25.4 is 15.24gm . This is 60% RH.

When you have a lower ambient air temp the SVD drops @ 78ºF you get 23.7gm/m3.

I like to use 15.5 gm/m3 as a target @ 78ºF this is 65% (rounded) You should have at least 65%, so 70% is just a bit too much (a little shy of one gram per meter square)

You should be trying to keep the humidity between 65-70% RH based on your ambients. So no actually you are spot on.

[JoshSloane]

Right there is where I pop the "ridiculous" flare. As a scientist I appreciate your use of calculations. But the accuracy of your instruments to measure ambient temps and humidity are inherently flawed and even at best have an error of plus or minus 2-3 %. There's no sense in calculating a desired value based off a complete estimate. Like I said previously, natural conditions do not have static humidity levels at all, so why drive yourself insane keeping the humidity exact.? A ball python is not going to notice a 5% change in humidity, guaranteed. A person new to snakes has enough to worry about other than this minute change. If the snake is eating, healthy, shedding and acting properly then this is all just an academic exercise.

[kitedemon]

It is easy people whom have low ambients keep 60% and they get bad sheds consistently because they simple do not understand they need 70-85% RH and people with higher ambients like I do, don't need to struggle to keep 60% when 50% is fine. It is why many tell you you need to do something different when a snake is going into shed, they don't understand someone so very basic as relative humidity. You should not need to change anything shed or not if you have things correct. I keep mine at 50% sometimes 55% if it is winter. I never have a bad shed. I can even drop as low as 45% in the summer and still hold 15.5.

Basics, Relative humidity is relative to temperature. Basic it changes with temperature the higher the temp the lower it needs to be the lower the team the higher it needs to be. I am sorry this is too difficult for you.

That is great, yes perfect if you get good sheds 100% of the time. But how often do new hobbyists fail to have good sheds? Often, it is also clear that they don't understand the relationship between ambient air temps (almost always the same as cool end temps) and RH. The OP has demonstrated this perfectly. Just enough humidity and the question is should I lower them? Your recommendation yes lower them and we will help you when you have a bad shed? Great advise there, change it until it is wrong and them we can fix it.

I agree most don't have accurate thermometers (I do Platinum RTD traceable) or Hygrometers (mine is tested and calibrated every 6 months so again mine are fairly good) does that mean we should recommend units known to be inaccurate? No we should try to educate all instruments are not the same some are better than others. That conditions that are not terrible is ok? we should not strive to maintain exemplary? Great, you are welcome to your mediocrity, I strive for better. The ambient air temp can make as much as 20% difference in RH so you are saying that what ever, between 40% and 80% is fine? do you lick your finger for temperature too?

I would not hire you to work with our animals, that attitude would never pass.

You claim to be a scientist. Where is your data that the humidity is not seasonal consistent? The weather charts I have seen for the region she clearly the dew point day to day week to week are quite similar (dew point is a good indication of AH). It reality is on the ground in costal Africa the humidity is remarkably stable and predictable. Your belief in its instability is based on nothing but your misunderstanding.

There is no way you will ever convince me that 40-80% RH is ok anywhere inside there, most here agree 5% up or down is all they tolerate that translates into 4ºF window for ambients, you cannot seriously believe everyone in the hobby holds such a narrow ambient temp range?

[JoshSloane]

Firstly, claim to be a scientist? I am a Neurotoxicologist at University of Colorado Medical School getting my PhD in Biochemical and Molecular Toxicology. Feel free to consult the CU Denver Toxicology webpage for corroborating evidence regarding my claims of being a scientist. My username here is my actual name.

Secondly, you have an incomplete understanding of the definition of accuracy vs precision. Of course you use the finest instrument available and go off of the data that you have available. But what you don't understand is that you are chasing a moving target. With an imperfect tool to measure temps and humidity, you are likely to have swings +/- a few percent based off of a flawed system. THUS, getting back to what the OP was actually asking, a 5-10 % increase in humidity when putting in fresh substrate is NOT an issue because you likely have swings in humidity NORMALLY due to hygrometers and thermometers not being perfect instruments.

Bashing a newbie because they didn't do the "necessary" calculations for determining humidity is just not productive, and IMO prevents people from using these forums properly. Regarding data from natural conditions, humidity in sub-Saharan Africa oscillates between 70-95 percent relative to seasonal rain (obviously). Therefore, even a 15% increase, and a temporary one at that IS NO BIG DEAL.

Also, you're in luck regarding not hiring. I seem to have a pretty lucrative career as a biomedical scientist.

[Citrus]

Firstly, claim to be a scientist? I am a Neurotoxicologist at University of Colorado Medical School getting my PhD in Biochemical and Molecular Toxicology. Feel free to consult the CU Denver Toxicology webpage for corroborating evidence regarding my claims of being a scientist. My username here is my actual name.

Secondly, you have an incomplete understanding of the definition of accuracy vs precision. Of course you use the finest instrument available and go off of the data that you have available. But what you don't understand is that you are chasing a moving target. With an imperfect tool to measure temps and humidity, you are likely to have swings +/- a few percent based off of a flawed system. THUS, getting back to what the OP was actually asking, a 5-10 % increase in humidity when putting in fresh substrate is NOT an issue because you likely have swings in humidity NORMALLY due to hygrometers and thermometers not being perfect instruments.

Bashing a newbie because they didn't do the "necessary" calculations for determining humidity is just not productive, and IMO prevents people from using these forums properly. Regarding data from natural conditions, humidity in sub-Saharan Africa oscillates between 70-95 percent relative to seasonal rain (obviously). Therefore, even a 15% increase, and a temporary one at that IS NO BIG DEAL.

Also, you're in luck regarding not hiring. I seem to have a pretty lucrative career as a biomedical scientist.

I'm normally against arguments on a thread where someone needs help but this is magnificent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[steve_mead27]

My question is how do I make my own thread on here to get information an opinions bout my snake

[JoshSloane]

Glad I can provide some entertainment. I have 30+ min to kill in the lab between experiments and this fills the gap perfectly.

I just remember being new to this many years ago and getting the online b*tch smack by some senior forum members for not dogmatically following some esoteric strict standard. Doesn't help a new snake owner have any peace of mind with their new addition.

[JoshSloane]

My question is how do I make my own thread on here to get information an opinions bout my snake

Go to the forum sub-section you wish to post in, and in the upper left hand corner click on "Post New Thread"

[Skeletor]

Kitedemon.....could a wet bulb , dry bulb thermometer and a chart be used to calculate RH ?

[kitedemon]

What I was saying is that the OP has it perfect. He/she is on target perfectly given their ambient air temp.

I see what you are saying but what i am saying is simple. RH is a percentage and as such it is a variable scale. Inside the acceptable air temps for a Royal 45-85% Rh all can be 15.5gm/m3.

You are suggesting not to bother measuring RH? or temp? Because some have thermometers that are 2ºC +/- Or hygrometers that are 5%+/- ?

Are you suggesting that it doesn't matter if you should be in the 80%RH area and only have 40%RH ?

Or are you suggesting that the rest of us are too stupid to understand such things and just guess because we are knuckle dragging Neanderthals?


I simply don't understand why anyone would not suggest as much as 20% up or down is acceptable?

If case you didn't bother to ever look up anything on RH in the range of a Royal ambient air temp and using very crude averages every 2ºF (roughly) from 80ºF represents 5% shift in RH. If it is cooler add and warmer subtract.

Skeletor yes but it is overly complicated and not practice. Just use a hygrometer, I would actually suggest calibrating them (test kit for digital and salt test for analogue) and then take the ambient air temp and add or subtract 5% for ever 2ºF less is pointless but ten 10% is not. It has been demonstrated over and over by posts of people claiming they need more than 60% to get a good shed.