Young BP Sheds Then Refuses Food (Pic Heavy)

[anicatgirl]

Hi guys! So I am going to give you every bit of info I have and hopefully y'all can help me come up with a solution.

My snake is a lesser pastel about 6 months old, 24 inches long, 300 grams completely empty as of yesterday.

My setup is as follows.



It is a 20 gallon long with cypress mulch, two hides identical except in color, a water bowl, a UTH connected to a Hygrotherm and a ReptiFogger connected to same Hygrotherm. The back, 2/3rds of the front, and 1/4th of the sides are covered for privacy, because the tank is about 1.5 feet off the floor and I have 2 cats who barely look at her. Most of the top is covered with foil along with the Reptifogger hose and a red halogen heat light.







The Hygrotherm sensor is in the warm hide set against the glass. The sensor is set to adjust the heat to 95 degrees and the humidity to 55%. (Also my snake was not enthused to be disturbed for pictures.)



I took readings just now and while the sensor reads 95 degrees the infrared temp checker reads between 89 and 91 in the hot hide, with it pointed towards the bottom bedding. My bedding is maybe a 1/4 of an inch thick. The humidity read in at 54%, and the cool side read between 78-80 degrees in different spots in the cool hide.

Now that's the setup. Here's the history.

Tiny Snake (or Tanith) has done this once before. She went into shed a few months ago eating f/t readily, had a rough shed (Pre fogger) which I had to help her remove the lower half. And then stopped eating for two months. I switched to live and she began eating again. I have always fed in her enclosure.

Fast forward to now. She shed almost 2 weeks ago. She started shedding inside my tank top (while I was wearing it) and the bottom half came off easy like that. I didn't notice until the bottom half was done..... Then I put her back in her tank and waited. After a couple hours of her ignoring the rest of her shed I soaked her and peeled it off very slowly, very carefully, very gently. I picked up her usual 2 large mice the next day (my breeders rats are still too large). And she refused to eat them. Didn't react at all. So now I have 2 mice in a hamster cage... And nearly two weeks later I have tried every few days to feed her, I avoid handling 24 hours prior, and go in at night, mostly in the dark to feed. Yesterday the best she did was flick her tongue alot and watch the mouse. If they get close to her face she backs away fully into her hide.

I am worried because she is so young, and my breeder John of Tails and Scales in Derby, KS said last time that it is kinda unusual for one so young to go off feed. Now that this is happening again I figured I would see what people had to say, and hopefully at least get some reassurance if not some answers.

[anicatgirl]

Should I just dangle the live mouse by its tail instead of dropping it in and letting it roam...?

Anyone?

[200xth]

Should I just dangle the live mouse by its tail instead of dropping it in and letting it roam...?

Anyone?

No. Just put it in the enclosure. Your snake will find it.

[Daigga]

Try to only offer once a week instead of every few days, trying to offer more frequently will end up having the opposite effect. Little ones tend to be more reliable eaters, but that doesn't mean they don't still turn their noses up at food every so often. Not that big a deal, I'm sure she'll eat for you pretty soon.

[Albert Clark]

Should I just dangle the live mouse by its tail instead of dropping it in and letting it roam...?

Anyone?

Anticatgirl, well congratulations on being on point with the husbandry and the visual set up! Everything seems correct, temps, humidity, basking, and substrate. Since you already have that correct, have you inspected the animal for any signs or sounds of illness? Since you already have the large live mice yes I would try dangling it in front of him. I would wait about 1 week though. Curious, are you sure the eye caps were shed with the last shedding? Lastly, if he refuses the large mice after a week of waiting. Make sure he has plenty of fresh water, wait 3 to 5 days and try him with a smaller mouse. Younger bps have a hard time refusing live prey. Especially one they are confident they can overpower! Good luck and enjoy. Stay in peace and not pieces. A.C.

[KMG]

You need to unplug the uth immediately. The HygroTherm is not designed for use with a uth. The probe for it is not touching the uth and is also on top of the substrate, as can be seen in your pics. I can guarantee that your uth is way to hot on the glass bottom of your tank. If your snake was to move the substrate and get to the glass you will have a burned snake.

You need to unplug it until you get a proper tstat. Once you get a proper tstat the probe should be mounted directly on the mat between it and the cage bottom, on the outside. Also once you have it set up correctly the substrate should be 1/4 inch thick at most.

[anicatgirl]

KMG I know it looks that way but I promise that it is touching the bottom. I didn't really know that the probe for the Hygrofarm was going to be as it is, and so if I drop the temp to 90 would it be ok? I have realized for the last week that I need a different one and to attach the Hygrofarm to like a ceramic bulb or something... If I had known that it wouldn't work for well for the UTH I would have gone ceramic instead of halogen, because my understanding is that they burn out really fast from the constant off/on? At which point if I unplug the UTH and put the bulb right over the hot side connected to the Hygrotherm would that work temporarily to keep her temps OK?

Also, any thoughts on the feeding issue...?

Albert Clark, I try. I read a lot before I got her, though apparently not quite enough, and I spend probably an hour on here at night reading and absorbing as much as I can. I have checked her for illness, she has always looked fine, and while occasionally whistles, I check her mouth if it happens for more than a minute or so and she has never had any mucus or anything. I have even had the breeder I got her from look, just to make sure, cause I'm that paranoid parent.

Yes I know the eye caps came off, I looked until I found the piece with them and hung on to it in case I forgot, to reassure myself.

I will consider getting a small mouse, as I can't see what else would cause her to just not even try. It is the same size she was eating before shed but maybe smaller a few times will help. Thanks!

[Sauzo]

You generally don't want a T-stat probe inside the cage on the floor since if the snake spills the water bowl or takes a piss on it, it can either destroy it or will cause it to overheat as it now is reading cooler water on it. Best thing to do is mount it on the outside between the tank bottom and the UTH.

[KMG]

The probe may be touching the glass but that is not how the Hygrotherm is designed to work. As it is now all the snake has to do is move the probe and your uth is going to run away and get extremely hot.

Yes, it would be put to much better use with a lamp or che. While the usual advice is to have the probe outside the tank with this application just as with a rhp the probe is going to need to stay inside the cage. I would not place it in the hide and instead have it dangle from a well near the heat source. This will also give you better function for the fogger.

As for the feeding it could be that you are offering to often. If I get a refused meal the snake does not get another offer until the next feed day which is usually a two week period for my collection. I would wait at least five days and then try. Leave the snake completely alone the day prior and of feeding and then feed when its nice and dark.

You could have stressed the snake by handling it while in shed and then with the offering of food several times the issue has just been adding up. I would give it some time alone to relax. As a general rule I do not handle any of my snakes while in shed unless absolutely necessary. I also do not offer food during a shed.

[anicatgirl]

She acted hungry during her first shed and so I fed her and she ate fine, in blue and everything, so I figured it was a snake by snake basis and she would continue the trend. She is getting some alone time. And I always leave her alone the 24 hours before feeding. Feed in the relative dark. Any time that could be helpful...? I usually get home around midnight and do it then. Is this too late?