Sudden balance / mobility issue: need advice

[artgecko]

I just saw another thread that might be similar to my issue... I have 6 rats, with 2 males being housed together. One of the males (they healthiest one of the group) was having what I thought was a seizure this afternoon. He's moving very spasticaly, holding his head up / twitching it. Very jerky arm / leg motions. He tries to climb but seems to have difficulty. He is close to 1.5 years old. The other male he is in with (he is slightly older than this male) has been loosing some hair and is very lethargic...I am not sure that his symptoms could be related, I assume it is just aging issues

None of the other rats are affected and show no signs. The only changes have been that I gave them a "whimzee" treat yesterday (none of the others showed a reaction) and that I acquired a pair of dwarf robo hamsters last week, but they are on the opposite side of the room and again, no other animals appear affected and the hamsters are OK. All rats are on the same bedding (thin layer of TSC pine pellets and shredded HT aspen on top) and the same food (NE).

I know that I may have to put him down, but I had a few questions for you guys about the situation.
1. Other than a brain tumor, what could cause this (trembling, balance, and weird head positioning)?
2. Should I isolate him in a single level cage (like a bin cage) until he is either euthanized or I take him to the vet?
3. Should I remove him from the room the other rats are in?
4. If I do have to euthanize, I don't have a co2 chamber ready yet and I don't have a snake big enough to feed him live to (my largest, a 3.5 foot boa, is on small rats and this is probably between a large and jumbo). Is cervical dislocation the best option or what else would be a quick and relatively painless way to handle it? I had to do CD on a small juvie rat once and I didn't do it correctly, so I'm leary of performing it on a larger rat).

Thanks for your help guys! This is such a weird and sudden issue and is the first time I've dealt with something like this in any of my pets, so it's freaking me out a little.

[Reinz]

Wow, sorry you're having to deal with this man.

Well it sounds like the central nervous system.
The causes can be Trauma, Chemical, Viral, Parasitic, or Organic.

If you are sure that there was no trauma or chemicals, then with organic, do you really want to spend hundreds on diagnostics and treatment? Same with Viral and parasitic. But if you think it may be one of those, (v/p) then yes, quarantine the animal.

I understand your reluctantance to perform a CD. You can always use a shovel as a guillotine. Labs use an expensive guillotine.

Depending upon were you live, a .22 bullet at the base of the skull is instantaneous. I've done it successfully with pets over the years with convulsions. You think it may be hard to do for a rat, think about a beloved 10 year old dog!

Best

[artgecko]

Thank you for your advice.
I don't think it is viral... I've had all of these rats for well over a year now and none are showing signs.. With chemicals, again, nothing new and no others are showing issues, so I am guessing that it has to have been either trauma (him falling badly etc.) or a tumor or stroke maybe?

Unfortunately, we don't own a gun and live in the city with close neighbors...Or that would be a good option. I saw a video on how to do a Co2 euthanasia with vinegar and baking soda (slowly with a funnel). I may do that if I have to. I have all of the supplies on hand except for tubing.

The suddenness of this is what bothers me. He showed no symptoms yesterday.

[Daigga]

It might have been my thread you were referring to. One of my girls just lost her equilibrium one day a week or two ago and I'm not sure why. I was told it may be an ear infection, but neurological issues/stroke also match her symptoms. I've had her separated out for a while now, even though none of her cage mates nor any other rat in my collection have shown any similar symptoms. I've resolved to watch her for another few days and see if she gets better on her own, but it isn't looking very likely.

I understand your reluctance to do a cd, I failed when I tried it as well and I just wasn't comfortable trying to hold the rat down during the process. I dont think hands-on euthanasia will ever be something I'm comfortable with. What I did when I had to put several of my weaning down was to put them in a plastic tote with a small carrier tote in it with just a little water in the bottom of the smaller tote. I dropped a small chunk of dried ice into the water and put the lid on the bigger tote for about five minutes. The five minutes was just me being sure they were good and dead with no chance of a botched euthanasia, as they were out within 45 seconds.

[artgecko]

Thanks for your advice.
We're still watching him to see if he improves. If we do have to euthanize him, I think I will tlry the vinegar / baking soda CO2 method. hopefully that will work. If that does not, I may have to do a sharp blow to his head or something. There is a downside to every hobby and I think this is it with rats. it's not that I am that attached to him...I will be fine when he is dead, it is just hard to watch him suffer and have to make the decision on whether to end his life or not.

Thanks again!

[Rhasputin]

It's easier to use dry ice. You can get it for like $4 at most grocery stores. You place the rat in a container, like a 10 gallon tank, and hold a container (something plastic that won't crack, and can hold a bit of water) with a bit of dry ice over the tank, and pour hot water into it slowly so that the tank fills up slowly with CO2. It's not perfect science like a CO2 tank can be, but you can just do it slowly until the rat passes out, then crank it up and just flood the tank with CO2 to kill him. It's a lot less messy than vinegar and baking soda, which foams up and it tough to measure.

You can move the dry-ice back and forth over the container (so the CO2 is falling into the tank, and not) so that you can control the amount of CO2 flowing in at first.

[artgecko]

Thanks again for your help!
We couldn't find a store with dry ice, so ended up doing the vinegar / baking soda method. It worked, and I was able to adjust the flow somewhat so that he passed out before he got the lethal does of CO2. He was freaking out, but I think it was from the stroke (he was going in circles). I'm just glad that it is over and that he is not suffering anymore. I will definitely invest in a good CO2 setup for when I start breeding feeders... I wasn't happy with how hard it was to control the mixture for this method. We did CD on him afterwards just to make sure.

I wonder how common strokes are. I've read maybe 4 incidences of them just recently (after this happened to my rat) and wasn't aware that they were this common. It seems most of them happened in rats about 1.5 years old too. I am glad that the female I tried to breed him to didn't take, as this might be genetic.

[Reinz]

..............
I wonder how common strokes are. I've read maybe 4 incidences of them just recently (after this happened to my rat) and wasn't aware that they were this common. It seems most of them happened in rats about 1.5 years old too. I am glad that the female I tried to breed him to didn't take, as this might be genetic.

Just a little bit of information that I remember from my job studies from a past life; most lab and feeder rats come from a weaker gene pool.
They USUALLY only live 12-24 months. Tumors and cancers are high on the list of cause of death.

Now your rat was 1.5 yrs old, meaning that it was at it's possible end stage of life. So yes, the carotid arteries could have occluded resulting in a stroke. Either way, time was probably closing in.

OTOH-

Well cared for rats, pet quality and fancy rats average about 3 yrs. Of course there are always big exceptions with all rats.

[artgecko]

Thanks for the info!
He was purchased from petco, which sells feeders, so I'm sure his lines aren't great. My other rats are from a rescue litter and are maybe 2 months younger than him, so we'll see how well they do, although more-than-likely, they originated from feeder lines too at some point. If I am unable to breed from the ones I have left, I will be getting new lines from someone that breeds feeders and pets, so hopefully those will be healthier.