First rat: Will it ALWAYS be this hard?!

[Spoons]

So my lovely boy Argus took his first rat today! But it was NOT easy. I weighed him at 348 grams. My smallest rat was smack at the 15% body weight mark, so I thought I'd try it. I had planned to wait until he was a bit bigger and skip a feeding so he would be extra hungry, but hey, no time like the present, yeah?

Argus knows when he gets weighed he's going to get fed, so he was waiting for his meal, sticking out of his hide, and eventaully roaming around impatiently while I thawed his dinner.

I knew it may be hard, so I thawed a mouse with the rat and rubbed them on each other. I tossed the mouse on top of the cage under the warming bulb to fill the tank with its scent, and when he was ready to go, offered the rat. BAM, struck immediately, coiled... And left it, instead poking at the mouse through the screen lid. I warmed and offered the rat again, and he took it AGAIN, and he left it. The third time he looked like he kind of tried to eat it, but it was backwards, and he gave up.

So, I cut the mouse open and rubbed it all over the head of the rat. He took it again. Immediately. But, no dice. I had to split the mouse open and rub the entire rat down with its innards, and THEN he took it and ate it. It took 5 or 6 tries. Every time he struck and coiled in seconds after being offered and LOOKED like he really wanted to eat it, but eventually would abandon it.

This whole time he was roaming the tank, striking anything that moved (retrieving the rat was a process that involved a snake hook and a quick hand), seriously hungry snake. He is not a shy eater, so me being there in his mind just meant food - He wanted the mouse he could smell. Will it always be this hard? Will he eventually warm up to the idea of just the rat, or will it be a long time of splitting mice and slathering the rat in mouse scent? I have a few more mice (three) and it'd be awesome if I didn't have to buy more.

What are your experiences with switching over to rats? Good, bad? How long did it take?

[Reed12321]

So my lovely boy Argus took his first rat today! But it was NOT easy. I weighed him at 348 grams. My smallest rat was smack at the 15% body weight mark, so I thought I'd try it. I had planned to wait until he was a bit bigger and skip a feeding so he would be extra hungry, but hey, no time like the present, yeah?

Argus knows when he gets weighed he's going to get fed, so he was waiting for his meal, sticking out of his hide, and eventaully roaming around impatiently while I thawed his dinner.

I knew it may be hard, so I thawed a mouse with the rat and rubbed them on each other. I tossed the mouse on top of the cage under the warming bulb to fill the tank with its scent, and when he was ready to go, offered the rat. BAM, struck immediately, coiled... And left it, instead poking at the mouse through the screen lid. I warmed and offered the rat again, and he took it AGAIN, and he left it. The third time he looked like he kind of tried to eat it, but it was backwards, and he gave up.

So, I cut the mouse open and rubbed it all over the head of the rat. He took it again. Immediately. But, no dice. I had to split the mouse open and rub the entire rat down with its innards, and THEN he took it and ate it. It took 5 or 6 tries. Every time he struck and coiled in seconds after being offered and LOOKED like he really wanted to eat it, but eventually would abandon it.

This whole time he was roaming the tank, striking anything that moved (retrieving the rat was a process that involved a snake hook and a quick hand), seriously hungry snake. He is not a shy eater, so me being there in his mind just meant food - He wanted the mouse he could smell. Will it always be this hard? Will he eventually warm up to the idea of just the rat, or will it be a long time of splitting mice and slathering the rat in mouse scent? I have a few more mice (three) and it'd be awesome if I didn't have to buy more.

What are your experiences with switching over to rats? Good, bad? How long did it take?

It sounds like the rat wasn't warm enough. He'd strike at it because he could smell it, but then when he coiled around it felt that it wasn't as warm as he hoped. Next time, use a hair dryer and heat up the rat right before putting it into the tank, especially the head. Hold the hair dryer on the head of the rat for a good 15-20 seconds and it'll make it more appetizing. But just make sure that the body temp is in that 98-100F range.

[Spoons]

Hmm. Good thought, but I don't think that's the case - It was definitely warm. They get thawed in hot water until they're soft all the way through, then warmed under the ceramic bulb on the tank screen lid.

At least with mice, he's never cared how hot they are. I've offered one once even feeling cool straight after thawing, with no extra warming, and he'll snap them up and chow them down (of course, most of the time I make sure they're nice and mouse-temperatured, I was in a hurry that day!) The first time I had that same thought, as he coiled it in his water and definitely killed any warmth it had, but before offering it again I would re-warm it under the ceramic bulb.

He also would go up to the lid and try to strike at the mouse that was sitting on top, which hadn't been warmed at all after the first time (when I warmed to scent the tank) and was cooler than the rat.

Not opposed to putting extra focus on the warming next time though! I'll have to borrow a hair drier and see if that works better than the heating bulb.

[Daigga]

So my lovely boy Argus took his first rat today! But it was NOT easy. I weighed him at 348 grams. My smallest rat was smack at the 15% body weight mark, so I thought I'd try it. I had planned to wait until he was a bit bigger and skip a feeding so he would be extra hungry, but hey, no time like the present, yeah?

Argus knows when he gets weighed he's going to get fed, so he was waiting for his meal, sticking out of his hide, and eventaully roaming around impatiently while I thawed his dinner.

I knew it may be hard, so I thawed a mouse with the rat and rubbed them on each other. I tossed the mouse on top of the cage under the warming bulb to fill the tank with its scent, and when he was ready to go, offered the rat. BAM, struck immediately, coiled... And left it, instead poking at the mouse through the screen lid. I warmed and offered the rat again, and he took it AGAIN, and he left it. The third time he looked like he kind of tried to eat it, but it was backwards, and he gave up.

So, I cut the mouse open and rubbed it all over the head of the rat. He took it again. Immediately. But, no dice. I had to split the mouse open and rub the entire rat down with its innards, and THEN he took it and ate it. It took 5 or 6 tries. Every time he struck and coiled in seconds after being offered and LOOKED like he really wanted to eat it, but eventually would abandon it.

This whole time he was roaming the tank, striking anything that moved (retrieving the rat was a process that involved a snake hook and a quick hand), seriously hungry snake. He is not a shy eater, so me being there in his mind just meant food - He wanted the mouse he could smell. Will it always be this hard? Will he eventually warm up to the idea of just the rat, or will it be a long time of splitting mice and slathering the rat in mouse scent? I have a few more mice (three) and it'd be awesome if I didn't have to buy more.

What are your experiences with switching over to rats? Good, bad? How long did it take?

Sweet baby jesus, that sounds absolutely terrible.

He's probably easily distracted, I have one like that. Kirby will strike and coil every time I dangle his food in there, but if there's any movement or anything else around his tank he'll let go and cruise around for a while. He eventually goes back to it, so I feed him last before I leave the room and just don't worry about him.

[Reed12321]

Hmm. Good thought, but I don't think that's the case - It was definitely warm. They get thawed in hot water until they're soft all the way through, then warmed under the ceramic bulb on the tank screen lid.

At least with mice, he's never cared how hot they are. I've offered one once even feeling cool straight after thawing, with no extra warming, and he'll snap them up and chow them down (of course, most of the time I make sure they're nice and mouse-temperatured, I was in a hurry that day!) The first time I had that same thought, as he coiled it in his water and definitely killed any warmth it had, but before offering it again I would re-warm it under the ceramic bulb.

He also would go up to the lid and try to strike at the mouse that was sitting on top, which hadn't been warmed at all after the first time (when I warmed to scent the tank) and was cooler than the rat.

Not opposed to putting extra focus on the warming next time though! I'll have to borrow a hair drier and see if that works better than the heating bulb.

When you feed a f/t to your snake, do you use feeding tongs? Something that will help him have the desire to eat it more is tugging on the rat after he's coiled around it. It makes him think it's alive and he'll coil tighter and it'll help him sink his teeth in as well. I always tug on the f/t I offer my snakes and it makes them coil around it longer and eat it afterwards. I do on occasion end up with what you have and they'll lose interest. Usually I reheat it with a hair dryer and repeat the process.

[T_Sauer]

Rubbing the mouse and mouse enards all over the rat is never going to allow you to accomplish this mission you have set out on. The snake is still going to think it is eating a mouse...... best bet would probably be the way you started thinking .. let him go two weeks without eating then offer a properly thawed and warmed rat (100 to 110degree) ... I would try starting off with a rat pinkie or small rat pup (this is going to be the closest size-wise to the same size of adult mouse that you have been feeding him) .. after he is successfully eating rats in general then gradually over four or five feedings increase to the size rat that is appropriate for him .. Good Luck

[Sauzo]

That's what I did. My little girl was raised on mice but when I got her, I offered her a small rat fuzzy after a couple days and she gobbled it down. Then I moved up to large fuzzies, then rat pups and now she is just ate her first rat weaning last week. She is a very focused eater though and once she grabs that rat, nothing on gods green earth is going to get her to let go. I can even pick her up while she is eating the rat and put her on her paper plate so she doesn't eat aspen and she is unphased. But like T-Sauer said, masking the rat with mouse isn't going to get him to recognize rats as food, just wait a week and try a slightly smaller than usual rat or one close to the mice size you feed and then go from there.

[Atrox]

The switch from F/T mice to F/T rats for me was easy. One feeding day I just thawed a rat out with hot water, took it upstairs, pinned the neck down with the feeding tongs so it wouldn't fly everywhere and used the hairdryer to ensure that it was all warm especially the head. Held it outside of the hide he was in and he came darting out ready to strike as soon as he was out. He took it and ate it first time, I guess I was lucky.

I definitely think that making him wait an extra week would be the best option, but don't use a mouse to scent the rat, leave the rat as it is. When you do offer your snake the rat make sure that you use a hairdryer to warm it up and then focus on the head for about 5 seconds. Then if he strikes and then drops it, tough luck, make him wait another week. Eventually he will eat.. I hope.

Also, make sure that there is not a mouse anywhere to be seen. If he sees the other option, he will probably want the mouse and will ignore the rat.

[Lizardlicks]

I think you should probably leave the mouse out of the equation (except for scenting the rat if you really think it's necessary). It sounds like he was getting confused because the thing he WANTED was above him and he could still smell it. Make sure it's warm all the way through like the others said, and use the hair dryer to make sure head/nose are warmer than the other parts (that way he'll get it the right way round). Scent it if you think it needs doing, but don't take the mouse near his enclosure, he'll just be looking for the "real" food then.

[Bluebonnet Herp]

I just tossed live rat pinks in there the first time my BPs were big enough for rats and they took them no problem. If you want to try a more humane way, it's as easy as using freshly pre-killed. Haven't seen any disgusting innards as of yet in my time keeping my snakes.
Now the challenge remains in getting them to stay on rats when they feel like fasting. One of mine seems to favor mice.