Freaking out a little after feeding live for the first time ??

[somewobbegongs]

Hello all! I'm new to the forums, although I've been scanning and reading along for a long time now.

I just recently became the proud mom of a wonderful 6 year old ball python, Spencer. I rescued him from a pretty nasty situation, and throughout the last 2 months have been nursing him back to health after receiving him with pretty bad scale rot. He has since shed and is almost completely healed. He's the best snake I've ever worked with (I work with anacondas and other various large snakes/herps at an aquarium.) and I love this animal a lot. I've really bonded with him already - he's a gentle, good natured snake that I feel really strongly attached to already. He's been gentle enough for my little brothers to hold and handle, helping them become exposed to snakes in a positive way for the first time. I'm not a religious/spiritual/superstitious person but something felt so right about this snake the moment I happened upon the rescue situation that resulted in my adopting him.

The woman I got him from said he'd last eaten a week prior and that he was a consistent eater/had never really gone on any hunger strikes. She said he'd eaten both live and frozen/thawed in the past (she wasn't much help in giving me information about his past, unfortunately) In the weeks I've had him, I've offered him many different options, giving him time in between feedings, space, darkness, etc. I've always offered f/t - both large mice and small/medium rats of all colors. I've left them overnight and even tried braining my f/t. I've been in the animal husbandry field for a little while - I've fed my fair share of animals to other animals. I really, really didn't want to have to resort to live feeding, so I bought a gerbil and decided to use it's scent on f/t. Nothing.

Finally, tonight I'd had enough. I wanted him to eat so badly, and the gerbil I'd bought had been relatively passive so I felt confident at least putting the two together in the same container. As soon as Spencer saw the gerbil, he lunged for it and very quickly constricted and began eating it. Although I'm relieved that he's finally eaten...I've never felt weirder about anything before.

Like I said, I'm not religious or spiritual or anything. I'm an environmental biology/ecology major and I'm all too used to the concept of predation. Why do I feel so weird? I'm just kind of freaking out - shaking, sweating, stomachs-in-knots...I feel so wrong about this. Why?!

I do sea turtle necropsies every saturday on juvenile sea turtles that have tragically washed up on our shores cold stunned - I am able to accept this because I know there was nothing we could've done to prevent their deaths and they're teaching us about how to better protect them in the future. I've watched plenty of predator/prey interactions in the wild for my studies ...I thought for sure I could handle this, but I feel so responsible for a needless death. Was I too quick to jump straight to feeding live? Should I have waited longer before resorting to this? I just wanted what was best for Spencer, who I fully accept is a predator and needs prey. I just feel like in the end it was the wrong thing to do.

Has anyone ever experienced this feeling???

[DVirginiana]

Other people may have different opinions, but I see nothing inherently wrong with feeding a gerbil other than the risk that he'll get a taste for gerbil and decide that's what he's supposed to eat from now on. That and the fact that there may be a slightly greater risk of injury; to my knowledge, gerbils aren't bred to be docile like a lot of feeder animals are.

I know when I feed live I take comfort in knowing I was feeding an animal that was destined to be a feeder; there was never going to be any happy ending for the animals my BP eats. You may feel better if you feed him with a designated feeder animal next time.

EDIT: There's nothing inherently wrong with feeding live. For many people it is a matter of convenience rather than a last resort. Hopefully he'll take f/t for you since it seems like that would be better for you, but I don't think there's anything wrong with deciding to feed live.

[somewobbegongs]

Thank you - that's really what I was needing to hear. I'm feeling better and better after seeing Spencer all nice and full, knowing he probably just needed the push of something exciting and enticing to get him interested in feeding after a pretty crazy and probably traumatic few months of life-altering changes. I'm hoping he'll take f/t next feeding but if he's gotta have his gerbils I'm pretty sure there are a few good suppliers within my herp club - I'll do anything for this awesome snake. Thanks again

[Mr. Misha]

I agree with DVirginiana. I feed live and don't feel bad about it because even when you feed F/T, someone had to kill that feeder. I rather have my BP take care of that. They're usually pretty good at their job so don't feel bad.

However, I'm really not sure about feeding gerbils to Ball Pythons. Describe your husbandry and temperatures.

[Sauzo]

It gets easier with time. I do cervical dislocation to my rats that I feed my boa and ball python. As long as the animal doesn't suffer or have some gruesome prolonged death, I just view it as part of the whole life/death cycle thing. Now if someone tortures or puts the feeder through some gruesome or horrible painful death, well I kind of frown on that. now I know in nature, they can have a horrible death but I try and make it as quick and painless as possible. And think of it this way, it went to serve a greater good and wasn't just a pointless death. And I actually prefer to feed fresh killed to my snakes vs F/T. I just view it as a "home cooked meal" vs a "tv dinner"

[SnakeBalls]

I didn't have any problem with it. I sing the lion king song in my head every time Ulfric gets a snack!

F/T is all in the technique. A soak in warm water and a hair dryer to the head will get him interested. (To the mouse/rat that is...)

[C2tcardin]

I felt kind of bad at first and wanted to get mine on F/T which I was able to do with all but one who still eats a live mouse each week. I did feel pretty awful the other day when out of desperation I bought 10 live pinky rats to try and get this new stubborn BP female eating. I had to buy 10, that was the minimum from the breeder and I knew they would only live a few days without the mother. So I took 7 and put them in a zip loc bag and placed it in the freezer, which the breeder said was the most humane way to do it. Felt awful and after all that I had to toss the other 3 in the freezer too as she still hasn't eaten. I'm meeting up with the snakes breeder tomorrow who is going to give me a few baby mice and the smallest hoppers he has in hopes that works, if not he will take her back on Sunday and see if he can get her eating again. Sorry for the derail of your thread, just thought it was necessary to explain why I had to cull 10 pinky's.

[Bayonet]

I felt kind of bad at first and wanted to get mine on F/T which I was able to do with all but one who still eats a live mouse each week. I did feel pretty awful the other day when out of desperation I bought 10 live pinky rats to try and get this new stubborn BP female eating. I had to buy 10, that was the minimum from the breeder and I knew they would only live a few days without the mother. So I took 7 and put them in a zip loc bag and placed it in the freezer, which the breeder said was the most humane way to do it. Felt awful and after all that I had to toss the other 3 in the freezer too as she still hasn't eaten. I'm meeting up with the snakes breeder tomorrow who is going to give me a few baby mice and the smallest hoppers he has in hopes that works, if not he will take her back on Sunday and see if he can get her eating again. Sorry for the derail of your thread, just thought it was necessary to explain why I had to cull 10 pinky's.

I don't know where the breeder got the idea that freezing something alive is the most humane way to do it

[Joe balls]

I didn't have any problem with it. I sing the lion king song in my head every time Ulfric gets a snack!

F/T is all in the technique. A soak in warm water and a hair dryer to the head will get him interested. (To the mouse/rat that is...)

As you hold up the cute baby rat up like Simba? hakuna matata mo fo....snap! you monster

[Joe balls]

I felt kind of bad at first and wanted to get mine on F/T which I was able to do with all but one who still eats a live mouse each week. I did feel pretty awful the other day when out of desperation I bought 10 live pinky rats to try and get this new stubborn BP female eating. I had to buy 10, that was the minimum from the breeder and I knew they would only live a few days without the mother. So I took 7 and put them in a zip loc bag and placed it in the freezer, which the breeder said was the most humane way to do it. Felt awful and after all that I had to toss the other 3 in the freezer too as she still hasn't eaten. I'm meeting up with the snakes breeder tomorrow who is going to give me a few baby mice and the smallest hoppers he has in hopes that works, if not he will take her back on Sunday and see if he can get her eating again. Sorry for the derail of your thread, just thought it was necessary to explain why I had to cull 10 pinky's.

are you sure he didn't say use dry ice? I've heard of that, as it thaws the c02 kills quick and painlessly, not a slow freeze. Although they prob just get cold and go to sleep in the freezer it's prob not the best way to go.