New York State to ban snakes!

[Alkaurkharim]

I read this today on the kingsnake.com forums in the cornsnake area. I just thought it might be nice to put it here too.




Posted by: dumerils.com at Tue Jun 29 23:58:50 2004 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

New York State is trying to push a bill through that will ban all boas, pythons, hots, crocs and certain monitors. This is very similar to the ordinance we stopped in Chicago last year. This Bill has passed the assembly and the senate, its currently waiting on the governor to sign off on it and make it a law. If passed January of 05 NY State can kiss the bulk of their reptiles good bye. Yes this includes your hypos, motleys, sunglows etc. There is a clause that THEY MAY grant NY residents a permit to keep any animals acquired prior to this law being enacted. However any permits THEY MAY POSSIBLLY grant are for pets only! You are not allowed to breed. But do you really want your $5000 sunglow boa you just invested in to be a pet only? How about your spider ball python? If not we need to get active and stop this!!! I urge anyone and everyone whether you’re a NY resident or not to voice their opinion and denounce this bill. I personally ship a lot of stuff into NY, I know I am not the only one, if your just starting out in business you need to think about this because if this passes this is an entire state you’ll loose the opportunity to ever do business in. I also urge everyone to spread the word to anyone and everyone they can. Contact show promoters, breeders, supply dealers hobbyists etc. Pressure these people, they have huge mailing lists they can spread the word faster then any of us. Make them realize they need to get involved soon enough their may be no one left for them to sell their cages, light bulbs etc to. Let NY know that we will not stand back and allow them to take away our rights as responsible herpers with their blanket laws. NY is one of those states the other states look up to when it comes to legislation so you can bet money on the fact if this bill passes it WILL spread like wild fire. The ordinance we fought in Chicago last year was verbatim the one passed in NYC a couple years back. So if your sitting their thinking I don’t live their so I don’t have to worry about it. There’s your proof you better worry about it.They start with the big things to lay the ground work for the smaller reps.

Below is the link to the internet copy of the bill awaiting the gov’s signature.
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A02684&sh=t
The below link is to a page where you can email the Gov.
http://161.11.3.75/

To Write To The Governor:
Governor George E. Pataki
State Capitol
Albany, NY 12224
Below is a phone number where you can all and let them know your opposition to this bill. Tell them your calling in reference to bill A02684. You’ll then be asked if your for or opposed and asked for your zip code. I called today and gave them my zip and they logged my opposition to the bill even though I am a IL resident. If your moving there give them the zip your moving to.
518-474-8390

Many of you may remember some of you may not. Last year an ordinance came through Chicago as a knee jerk reaction to monkey pox that is pretty much the same thing as the current Bill in NY waiting for the Governor to sign off. This ordinance in Chicago we stopped last year, I was told by more then one person that we would never be able to stop it. Apparently the Aldermen who sponsored the bill is a powerful person within Chicago. I was told he has been known to push ridiculous things through and make them law just out of spit for people he doesn’t like. The people I spoken to who told me we would never be able to stop him or that city wide ban, deal with him on a regular basis and have done so for years. Very best they hoped that with all our support we could get the Aldermen to at least lisen and make the ordinance somewhat sensible. Well our support did the unthinkable and we stopped him from pushing the Chicago ban on reptiles through. When I spoke to these people they made a point that they didn’t think we could win, NOT because they didn’t believe in us, they didn’t think we could win because of the people and their tactics that we were up against. They were wrong, They were in awe, all they could say was thank you and how much they appreciated what WE had done. I know they spoke for the tens of thousands of reptile people within Chicago. My point of all this is two things, number one, we can do it, we don’t have to just roll over and take it from these people. There is enough of us and when we unit we CAN change things. #2 I was told last year that these politicians wouldn’t care what anyone who didn’t live within their district thought. Well they did, whether they cared because some of them realize you or I may become a voting resident in their district, prior to the next election or because of the over whelming response we gave them, I don’t care, all I know is WE got the job done and we need to do it again for NY State.

We need to stand up and let the government know that they have over stepped their bounds. Were Americans and we have rights as private responsible citizens and I for one am tired of seeing them stripped away!
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Jason & Danica

[Alkaurkharim]

If this is true I can't let this happen! Not when I still haven't gotten my BP yet T_T

[elevatethis]

I just read through the bill....its not banning them as pets but just regulating them heavily.

Also, as far as the wording goes...its keeps using the term "wild animal."
Here's how they defined "wild animal:"

I just read through the bill....its not banning them as pets but just regulating them heavily.

Also, as far as the wording goes...its keeps using the term "wild animal." Here's how it defines that:

10 E. "WILD ANIMAL" SHALL NOT INCLUDE "COMPANION ANIMAL" AS DEFINED IN
11 SECTION THREE HUNDRED FIFTY OF THE AGRICULTURE AND MARKETS LAW. WILD
12 ANIMAL INCLUDES, AND IS LIMITED TO, ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING ORDERS
13 AND FAMILIES:

21 (5) ALL REPTILES THAT ARE VENOMOUS BY NATURE, PURSUANT TO DEPARTMENT
22 REGULATION, AND THE FOLLOWING SPECIES AND FAMILIES: BOIDAE FAMILY,
23 ASIATIC (WATER) MONITOR (V. SALVATOR), NILE MONITOR (V. NILOCITUS),
24 WHITE THROAT MONITOR (V. ALBIGULARUS), BLACK THROAT MONITOR (V. ALBIGU-
25 LARUS IONIDES) AND CROCODILE MONITOR (V. SALVADORI) AND ANY HYBRID THER-
26 EOF,

However, they also define the term "pet."

30 31. "PET" MEANS AN ANIMAL KEPT FOR THE PRIMARY PURPOSE OF COMPANION-
31 SHIP THAT IS NORMALLY MAINTAINED IN OR NEAR THE HOUSEHOLD OF THE OWNER
32 OR PERSON WHO CARES FOR SUCH DOMESTICATED ANIMAL.

I think this leaves the grounds for captive bred reptiles completely open. Is a captive bred animal also a wild animal? I don't think any reasonable person would agree.

An arguement could be made that captive bred reptiles, including many valuable morphs are, in fact, domesticated. I'm not a law student or anything and I easily found that loophole, I'm sure any lawyer would be able to do better.

This bill is focused on the wild, imported animal trade. Section 4 of the bill outlines the guidelines for those who presently keep and would like to keep such animals. NY state residents will have to be at least 21 years of age and obtain a permit from the state, as well disclose a lot of information about where it is kept, how, who will treat it if it becomes ill, etc etc.

So this bill isn't banning our herps completely. You won't be able to breed them and sell them within the state. HOWEVER, there is no provision that says you can't get the animal elsewhere. If you want to have one of these as a pet, you'll have to get it out of state and obtain a NY state permit to keep it.

I want to know how they are going to enforce this....

[Alkaurkharim]

Quite simply, they wont. At least I hope they won't. I can understand the Wild Animals part, but there shouldnt be any mention of breeding from CB and ownership of CB. The huge pet chains like PetCo and Petsmart, while I don't think they should have herps to begin wiht, will lose a considerable amount of money from this, as well as local breeders. That's alot of income the state is losing too. Just doesn't seem like a logical thing to do. Leave it alone, its been fine the way it is for a long time.

[Marla]

FWIW, the state of Georgia does not consider any reptiles to be domesticates animals for any legal purpose whatsoever, and I sincerely doubt that would function as a loophole to the proposed NY law, regardless of the animal's origin.

[CTReptileRescue]

CT law states that Reptiles are wildlife. Including all "store bought herps".
All Wild. That is why we mainly deal with our Department of Environmental Protection. Instead of Dept. of Ag.
Rusty

[elevatethis]

...It was worth a shot...

I'm suprised that Virginia hasn't already passed something like this...

[CTReptileRescue]

This email is to inform you of a bill in NY that if passed will have detrimental effects on reptile breeders, commercial supply businesses and hobbyists alike. This bill has passed the assembly and the senate within New York and is currently setting on the Governors desk awaiting his signature to become law. He may sign off on it this week or may wait several months to make his decision it is imperative that we act NOW! If this bill passes they way it is currently written, it will be an all out ban on boas, pythons, monitors, crocodilians and venomous species of reptiles. There is a clause that says the state may grant permission for a permit to keep and maintain any animals listed within this bill as pets only, if you owned them prior to this bill which will take effect January of 2005 if we don't stop it. In other words if you own any animals listed within this bill and apply for a permit to keep them, IF they grant you this permit you may never breed them, you are allowed to maintain them as pets only. I live outside of the state of NY and am trying to rally everyone outside and within I can but I need you to do the same. The governor and his office will put more priority on the concerns of their residents then they will on people such as myself. Perhaps you know someone in New York who is not aware of this threat, and your help is needed to contact them about this.

I urge each and every one of you to please get as active as you can. Post fliers within pets stores, get your friends to write in, call your local representatives, and contact any kind of business within the state of NY that sells reptiles or supplies. These businesses have detailed mailing list, ask them to ad a flier next time their mailer goes out. Anything you can think of to spread the word. Also please tell everyone to keep their letters professional and polite we don't want to sound like a bunch of thugs. Below are three methods to contact the Governor and oppose this bill. If you have the time I urge you to use all three methods.

This law if passed could be adopted in other states. A couple years ago NYC passed a law that banned many species of animals (reptile, mammals etc.). Last year Chicago copied and tried to pass that very same law as well. They literally copied it; Chicago deleted references to NYC and replaced them with Chicago, in a couple of spots they forgot to remove the references to NYC. So this ordinance they were trying to pass in Chicago had references to both cities within it. For the time being we stopped them there but that's just an example of how one state or city does something and the rest follow.



These laws are pushed by some folks who, though well intentioned are not cognoscente of the freedom that they are taking away from honest law abiding citizens whose animals pose absolutely no risk to anyone. Others pushing these policies are animal rights whackos that seek to remove all animals from the hands of people period. This includes domesticated animals used for food and other animal products. Make no mistake this is a direct assault on the freedoms we as Americans enjoy that are being chipped away at those who ultimately want to see a different America. An America I for one am not looking forward to living in if these people continue to have their way.


Below are several links to contact Governor Pataki to voice your concern. Please do so with a non-combative argumentative tone. The most valuable messages to the Governor will be from New York citizens. When you write please include your name and zip code as the Governor's office will want to know this information.



Here's a link to the Bill


http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A02684&sh=t




Here's a link to email your opposition to the Governor


http://161.11.3.75/


Snail Mail address:
Governor George E. Pataki
State Capitol
Albany, NY 12224
Use the below phone number, tell them you are calling in reference to bill A02684. You'll then be asked for you zip code, once given the person will log your vote into a computer.
518-474-8390



Thank you for doing your part!



Jeff Ronne

The Boaphile





Thank you to Bruce Lowder of the NY Reptile Expo put together much of this information and wrote almost entirely the first two paragraphs of this email.

----------
Rusty

[daftperception]

well I'm not rolling over but if it does pass I'm going to have to be a criminal for a couple years until I'm old enough to get out of this state which i was already set on doing. If this bill passes watch tv because I'm going to be the guy that leaves a load of crap on the governor steps. this wont be the first illegal thing I've done there are so many stupid laws it seems like the government likes to smack all the small groups of people just because they feel like being a hero one day i mean if alcohol didn't have so many drinkers it would still be illegal.thats my rant :evil:

[Alkaurkharim]

It's like Elevate said, its gonna be pretty hard to enfoce this law...So I guess I'll be getting all Spy-like with my snakey hiding places O_O I build a secret compartment in my basement or something that only opens if you say Pataki sucks 3 times fast o_O