RI? Something else? Or my own paranoia?

[PivitPaul]

Hi everyone,
I've been following the forum for a long time but haven't posted anything substantive until now. I'd appreciate some sound advice. She's gone off feed and I'm concerned she might have an RI or something else that's troubling her breathing based purely on her posture.

Some basic info:

2013 female fire ball python that I got from a very reputable breeder.

Born June 24, 2013 at 63g.
I got her August 2012, she weighed 121g.
She weighed about 1200g at 1 year old. (Weighed her 2 days after feeding)

Feeding schedule:
One rat of appropriate size, starting at hopper, every 4 days until she weighed 400g, then usually 1 rat per week ever since (exceptions for vacation).

Husbandry:
- She lives in a wooden custom terrarium with a plexiglass-type (it's not plexiglass but something similar...can't remember the brand name) front-opening door. 42" L x 14" W x 16" T.
- I had them cut one long piece out of the floor on one side and put in a "plexiglass" bottom to accommodate heat tape.
- Flexwatt heat tape on warm side, probe attached to flexwatt, thermostat set to 92F. Actual temp about 90 under her warm hide.
- Radiant heat panel on ceiling. Probe measures ambient air on warm side and is set by thermostat to 85F.
- Probe measuring ambient air on cool side reads 81F, which is typical.
- Humidity currently 54% on heated side, 55% on cooler side, which is typical. Typically ranges between 40 and 60% depending on seasonal ambient humidity, spikes temporarily when I put in fresh bedding, and I bump it to around 65% when she's in shed.
- Temps controlled by Herpstat 2.
- I have a light in her terrarium only because the wood doesn't allow much light in and until when I moved apartments in July she was in a center room with no windows that would normally remain entirely dark. I have the light controlled by a Herpstat2 and set to 1%, so it's quite dim. 12 hour light/dark cycle: lights on at 9am, out at 9pm.
- Temps are same at night as during the day.
- Bedding is typically cypress mulch, but this summer since it's very humid outside normally, I've been mixing it with aspen to keep the humidity down to about 50%.
- I spot clean immediately when I notice she's peed or pooped.
- Full substrate replacement every 6 weeks
- Three hides - one warm, one cool, one in middle. Warm and cool hides are "cork flats" - not the high-arched bark hides but low to the ground and snug. Fake plants cover the openings but leave room for her to get in and out. Middle hide looks like a cave - snug but probably not ideally so.

Most recent feedings (typically small rats. Twice fed mediums because the pet store was out of smalls, and in those cases I got the smallest mediums and they were not as fat as the thickest part of her body), peeing/poopings, sheds, behavioral observations:
4/23 - feeding
4/23 - This week we notice every night she comes out and rests her head up on her middle hide/cave.
4/24 - urates
4/29 - attempted feeding but refused
5/6 - feeding
5/13 - small poop
5/14 - big poop
5/15 - perfect shed
5/14 - feeding
5/21 - feeding
5/24 - urates
5/28 - feeding (medium rat)
6/2 - poop and urates
6/5 - feeding
6/10 - feeding
6/10 - urates
6/13 - urates
6/22 - perfect shed
6/23 - feeding
6/26 - poop. Not the usual log - a little runny.
7/1 - feeding
7/1 - urates - noticed they were more greyish than the usual white/yellow
7/8 - attempted feeding but refused
7/10 - normal poop log
7/11 - normal urates
7/12 - normal urates
7/13 - normal urates
7/14 - attempted feeding but refused
7/15 - normal poop log
7/21 - fed but took about 15 minutes to strike
Between 7/21 and today - tried feeding once per week to 10 days, refused.

So. Since we noticed she was coming out at night and propping up on her cave, she's been doing it pretty much every night. She often does some laps around her terrarium and then rests up on top of the hide. But like clockwork, about 6pm she comes out and props up on top of the hide. During the day she's almost always under her hides. Over the last 2 months she's been spending 90 percent of the daytime in her cool hide, whereas before she was mostly in the warm. During this time her activity at night has seemed to increase - more laps around the terrarium, nosing up near the ceiling, some nose rubbing on the front door. She rarely did this before. (See pic attached with her on top of the hide. This is a nightly activity, starting about ).

A few other potentially notable factors:

She was outgrowing her warm hide, so on 6/23 I replaced it with a wooden mask I got years ago in Africa. I sterilized it beforehand, but this was a dumb move because on 7/1 I lifted it up and found some fuzzy white fungus growing under the hide. It wasn't overwhelming, just in a few spots. But still, I was alarmed. In the timeline, this corresponds with a runny poop and greyish urates that week, and irregular feeding behavior since. Coincidence or no?

On 7/5 I took her outside for the first time - just across the street to a quiet park and let her crawl around in the tall grass for 30 minutes. I took her to the park one other time, on Aug 10, for about 30 mins.

During the day, occasionally she'll come out from under her hide and prop her head up on top of the hide. This is almost daily, usually for about 20 mins or so at a time, and then she'll disappear back underneath. (See pic.)

She now weighs 1150 grams, down from about 1200g in June. When I weighed her in June it was a couple days after feeding, so essentially her weight has been holding about steady. Her muscle tone is still good, but she's not as thick in her body as she was.

While she props her head up and has for months now, she has no other signs of an RI - no mucus, no rattling or wheezing, no sounds at all when she breathes, no repeated mouth opening or anything.

SO: To reduce potential stress, I'm guessing I should ditch the naturalistic hides and get her three identical, snug, dark plastic hides with a single opening. I just ordered a piece of dark felt to put over the glass door during the night, since her terrarium is in my home office/den and I don't want the light in the room or the TV to disturb her at night. Minimal handling and no outside adventures.

But otherwise, is what I'm observing normal for some balls? The things I'm most concerned about are her posture with her head/body propped up, seemingly heightened activity at night with occasional nose-rubbing, and of course her not eating. Considering fasting is also normal, I'm wondering if she could just be in a normal fast and be an individual snake who, in the absence of any other RI signs, has settled into a routine of coming out and propping up on her hide, the equivalent of sitting on the porch in the evenings.

Has anyone else seen something like this before? Is a trip to the vet for a check-up in order?

I’ll very much appreciate any and all knowledgeable advice.

p.s. I can’t figure out how to post images but will as soon as I do.

[PivitPaul]

Ignore where I said I got her August 2012 - I got her August 2013, of course. :-) PJ

[bcr229]

I'm not thinking RI. Several of mine will sit outside of or on their hides, with their head on something else, just chilling. The typical RI posture is for the head to be pointing straight up, with the BP staying like that for hours.

Have you offered food in the evenings when she's most active? BP's are a nocturnal species. I know that if you offer prey and it's refused you're supposed to wait a week, but I've also had some critters refuse a rat at 3 pm, six hours later at 9 pm they're out hunting, I offer a rat, and they take it immediately.

[PivitPaul]

Thanks for replying. Yeah I've tried at night when she's out and about, but no dice. It's funny - I had conditioned her to the sound of the hair dryer to know she's going to eat. It worked like a charm right up until she stopped eating. Before she stopped, I'd kick the hair dryer on, and within seconds she'd emerge from her hide or, if already out, she'd get right into strike mode and be primed for it before I'd even open her door.

Since she's been fasting, though, I turn the hair dryer on and she comes out of hide or, if she's already out of her hide, she comes near the glass door. But instead of getting into strike posture she just anticipates the door opening -- and then when I open it she starts slithering out of the terrarium, right past the rat.

I'm not thinking RI. Several of mine will sit outside of or on their hides, with their head on something else, just chilling. The typical RI posture is for the head to be pointing straight up, with the BP staying like that for hours.

Have you offered food in the evenings when she's most active? BP's are a nocturnal species. I know that if you offer prey and it's refused you're supposed to wait a week, but I've also had some critters refuse a rat at 3 pm, six hours later at 9 pm they're out hunting, I offer a rat, and they take it immediately.

[PivitPaul]

Here are pics. I'm thinking now there's no risk that this is RI posturing and it's just something she does. And I should just give her some more time to decide to eat again.


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[Zincubus]

Thanks for replying. Yeah I've tried at night when she's out and about, but no dice. It's funny - I had conditioned her to the sound of the hair dryer to know she's going to eat. It worked like a charm right up until she stopped eating. Before she stopped, I'd kick the hair dryer on, and within seconds she'd emerge from her hide or, if already out, she'd get right into strike mode and be primed for it before I'd even open her door.

Since she's been fasting, though, I turn the hair dryer on and she comes out of hide or, if she's already out of her hide, she comes near the glass door. But instead of getting into strike posture she just anticipates the door opening -- and then when I open it she starts slithering out of the terrarium, right past the rat.

Sounds like so many Royals to be fair . Iv