I broke down and fed live mice to my Ball

[RayJ]

Well,Charles has only eaten one mouse and one rat since December . He started a fast in December and finally ate a pre-killed mouse and a f/t rat a week apart in mid April.He has refused all food since then.Showing no interest at all in F/t rats or mice.I tried in his cage and in a different plastic container.I bought two live mice today for (gasp)4.50 a piece.He ate both in a separate container.Now,I have a dilemma.I have a freezer full of med and small rats that will go bad soon and I really don't want to have to feed live every time.I just got concerned for his health so I tried live.I am certain that he would have refused a f/t rat if offered tonight.I feel much better that he ate but now am afraid that he will
Only eat live now.I'm going to try f/t rats next time but am doubtful that he will eat.So do any of you have any thoughts,advice,rebukes,or suggestions.I would appreciate it.


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[angllady2]

While it is possible for a ball to suddenly refuse f/t after a single feeding of live, it doesn't happen every time.

The main thing about fasting is weight. The key is to know the weight of your snake or snakes. When one or more fasts, keep an eye on the weight. Unless the snake looses more than 10 - 15% of it's body weight, your best bet is to just wait out the fast, as difficult as it is.

I have had an adult female import go 18 months without eating. She only lost about 10% of her body weight during that time.

In your situation, I would now wait at least 2 weeks before offing food again. Try to continue offering in his cage, because moving a fasting snake can frequently cause more problems than it solves. Make sure you are offering his food in an appealing way. Make sure it's well thawed, warm and dry, and make sure to really heat the head well, to produce a good heat signature for him to lock on to. I find frequently in speaking with people having problems with f/t, they seldom heat the prey item sufficiently to encourage a quick feeding response. In fact, many people seem to think you only need to drop a thawed item into the cage and wait. Which in my experience rarely works, since ball pythons see and hunt in heat. Anyway, if he refuses to eat, wait another two weeks and try again.

Something else I have found from personal experience, is that some ball pythons seem to sense when you are tensed up and worried about them eating. It sounds weird I know, but I really think that some of them pick up on your tension and anxiety. Kind of like a dog or cat can. If you are all keyed up and worried, " Is he/she going to eat this time? How long has it been since he ate? What do I do if he doesn't eat? He's not going to eat, I just know he's not the little brat!" they pick up on that and will deliberately not eat because of it. So try to keep nonchalant about it. If he eats he eats, if he doesn't, so what? You never know, it might help.

I wish you all the best, but don't give up on f/t just yet.

Gale

[sho220]

Well,Charles has only eaten one mouse and one rat since December . He started a fast in December and finally ate a pre-killed mouse and a f/t rat a week apart in mid April.He has refused all food since then.Showing no interest at all in F/t rats or mice.I tried in his cage and in a different plastic container.I bought two live mice today for (gasp)4.50 a piece.He ate both in a separate container.Now,I have a dilemma.I have a freezer full of med and small rats that will go bad soon and I really don't want to have to feed live every time.I just got concerned for his health so I tried live.I am certain that he would have refused a f/t rat if offered tonight.I feel much better that he ate but now am afraid that he will
Only eat live now.I'm going to try f/t rats next time but am doubtful that he will eat.So do any of you have any thoughts,advice,rebukes,or suggestions.I would appreciate it.


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First of all...frozen rodents last a pretty good while. They shouldn't go bad soon.

Secondly, I'd be more concerned with him getting stuck on mice, versus getting stuck on live. If he takes the mice without hesitation, you could try scenting a f/t rat with mouse bedding. I've gotten a bunch of balls switched over to rats that were stuck on mice like that.

[RayJ]

I did a test the other day.I put a f/t small rat,heated by the heat lamp for a few minutes,and Charles refused to eat. The next day he ate two live mice without hesitation.It seems he will only eat live.Now, what do I do. I'm not willing to make him go hungry just to make him eat f/t rats eventually. The pet store only had one very large rat so I got two mice. I hope to try live small rats if I can get them. I've had several boas and Burmese pythons in the past and they ate f/t rats fine.This Ball is picky apparently. He's seems to be a happy camper now.I will still try f/t rats every several weeks but will feed live if he refuses them. Any thoughts?


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[John1982]

How are you offering the frozen thawed? Probably one of the more common mistakes when trying to feed f/t to a shy feeder is to dangle it above them. Generally speaking, death comes from above - not food. Use some long handled hemostats, tweezers or whatever you have to grasp the thawed and warmed rodent by the scruff of the neck and proceed to zombie dance. Zombie dancing is trying to make the rodent act like a living one. Watch your snake feed on a live and try to mimic that. If it usually waits until the rodent noses his face you could give that a shot after dragging it around a bit. See if he tends to hit the rodent before it gets too close, from a hide, when it's facing him or facing away, etc. You are the puppeteer and your rat is the marionette - proceed.

[CptJack]

If you have a temp gun, check the temperature you are getting his food up to. For my 'finicky' eater, the prey has to FEEL HOT in my hand, all the way through (no cool bits in the middle). Not hot enough to hurt, but more like 104-106 than 101 that rodent's body temperature supposedly is and absolutely has to be that warm all the way through. I also dunk the head in 'can just barely touch' hot water for just a second, then dry it off and IMMEDIATELY offer. If it's feeling tepid to lukewarm to you, it is probably WAY too cool for your snake.

(Also, as mentioned above - my snake only if the rodent comes nose to nose with him. He is not doing any of this dangling, upside down, swinging, stuff. Straight on nose to nose movement and BAM. My OTHER BP will take room temp prey from any direction but this guy? NOPE. He has preferences and the FIRST time I got a strike I OVERheated the mouse so it exploded everywhere. It had cooled off enough not to burn but it taught me fast that that guy wants his meals warm and from the front.)

[RayJ]

I have tried that,believe me .First,I tried just leaving it in there overnight.No go.I tried the method you are talking about.He seems to have zero interest in f/t.I've had him since December of 2012.He ate f/t fine,rats and mice,until December of 2013.He then went on a four month hunger strike and ate twice in April.I'm just tired of the hassle.I will still try f/t but may just have to feed live as much as I hate to.It's too stressful for me to have him not eating if I know he will eat live.I feel guilty about making him go hungry for four months when he probably would have eaten live.


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[CptJack]

Soooo, you don't really want advice on how to get him to eat. You want to make sure we all know you've tried *EVERYTHING* and you have to feed live. Even though he previously ate frozen thawed and you don't want to feed him live but you don't want to wait for him to eat again, more.

All righty then. Thanks for clearing it up so we don't have to waste time telling you how to get him to take F/T or that a male snake hunger striking in breeding season is normal and BP hunger strike no matter what, and to watch for weight loss and all that actually useful information. Good luck - because he's a male ball python (mostly a ball python) and live or not he's going to hunger strike again.

[alan12013]

I did exactly what John1982 and CptJack suggested to a snake that recently turned down a F/T mouse and it worked really well nut it did take me about 5 full minutes with him. He was a bit confused as I think they can tell a live animal from a dead one. At least they sense that something is different. Therefore doing the "zombie" dancing will help. When my snake turned it down a few days ago I made both mistakes the other members are talking about. I dangled it and it was room temp. Tonight while he was cruising around I used my foot long tweezers and after the mouse was thawed I took my ex gf's hair dryer (re-purposed as a snake food cooker) and heated the sucker up then zombie danced. He was confused and tried approaching from several angles then just like fishing I must have moved it right and he bit, coiled and all. Then I did the trick I've seen on youtube where you wiggle the mouse just a bit so the snake thinks that it's really killing this thing. I also learned the difference between a small feeding and a normal sized feeding tonight

[RayJ]

Capt.Jack,are you saying that I should just wait it out no matter how long he refuses to eat when he would eat live in a second.I've tried many methods.I'm looking for advice and don't want to seem like I know it all when I don't.I've wasted a lot of money on rats that were in the freezer over a year that I threw out.I ordered 20 more and he hasn't eaten a single one yet but has eaten four live mice.So are you saying just to wait him out no matter how long it takes?


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