Wee bit O' blood (species dwarfism)

[Qoph]

I've been looking around at all sorts of smaller snakes, but my favourite would be a blood python. My space requirements don't allow for that. In the time it takes me to save up (hopefully by the end of the summer), would someone be able to breed me a dwarf blood python? I need it to be just as affordable as any normal blood.

In a more serious manner, I would like to ask what goes into the breeding of dwarf species. I know dog breeds have been bred for certain sizes before (like the pomeranian which used to be larger than it is today). Of course it's probably different for reptiles. Or maybe it's altogether different; is there a difference comparing hereditary predisposition to size and breeding toward that tendency, and what is referred to as species dwarfism? If it's possible to breed for, is it at all predictable or is it due to chance encounters with mutation?

[Tim Mead]

To the best of my knowledge and as of now, Dwarfism in reptiles is limited to insular / island animals.. This is because of a sparse food supply for MANY MANY generations.. In pythons I'm under the impression it has occurred in Burmese and retics.. I would have to ASSUME that in dogs a runt was produced and reproduced in order to breed for small.. Taking generations to accomplish.. OR there's something else in the hen house.. There are several reduced size dog breeds now to my knowledge and they all carry a increased price tag.. Will this be possible in "blood" pythons ? I hatched a 15 gram female in 2012 and a 30 gram male in 2013.. We'll see if such is possible.... You might want to start playing the lotto.. Currently at 2 years old the female is less than 3 lbs and a female other wise is close to 15 lbs..

[Wes]

A dwarf Blood Python? You mean a Ball Python?

[Qoph]

To the best of my knowledge and as of now, Dwarfism in reptiles is limited to insular / island animals.. This is because of a sparse food supply for MANY MANY generations.. In pythons I'm under the impression it has occurred in Burmese and retics.. I would have to ASSUME that in dogs a runt was produced and reproduced in order to breed for small.. Taking generations to accomplish.. OR there's something else in the hen house.. There are several reduced size dog breeds now to my knowledge and they all carry a increased price tag.. Will this be possible in "blood" pythons ?

I need clarification. Are you meaning to say that Burmese used to be larger than they are now, or do you mean there have been previous accounts of smaller ones? I've wanted one of those all-day suckers since about 12 years old, when an albino one was shown at my birthday party, but of course part of their appeal IS their size, so a dwarf Burmese would be weird.

If it's a natural occurance, though, it can be more speedily reproduced in captivity. Just as in multi-gene colour mutations, or miniature weiner dogs. Axanthic piebald mutants could exist in nature just as any hybrid species could or [drumroll] dwarfism. I'm not trying to convince you; I'm just being optimistic, because you make it sound as though it does work in reptiles just like mammals.

I hatched a 15 gram female in 2012 and a 30 gram male in 2013.. We'll see if such is possible.... You might want to start playing the lotto.. Currently at 2 years old the female is less than 3 lbs and a female other wise is close to 15 lbs..

You've come in answer to my prayers!? Except for the suggestion I might want to win the lottery. I assume she seems normal and healthy in all other respects? Because you didn't seem to mention otherwise, and no news is usually good news. What about the male?

A dwarf Blood Python? You mean a Ball Python?

Oi, you know there are great personality differences, and the colour pattern. Fatter as well. Very likely, I will need to settle for a ball, but that isn't a bad compromise. Otherwise I would just go snakeless.

[Tim Mead]

I need clarification. Are you meaning to say that Burmese used to be larger than they are now, or do you mean there have been previous accounts of smaller ones? I've wanted one of those all-day suckers since about 12 years old, when an albino one was shown at my birthday party, but of course part of their appeal IS their size, so a dwarf Burmese would be weird.

There are and have been for years now, Dwarf Burmese, I do not know the locale or specifics, But with google you can likely find something..W Within the last 5=7 years there is also a locale of dwarf retics, Google again or try giant pythons right here..

If it's a natural occurance, though, it can be more speedily reproduced in captivity. Just as in multi-gene colour mutations, or miniature weiner dogs. Axanthic piebald mutants could exist in nature just as any hybrid species could or [drumroll] dwarfism. I'm not trying to convince you; I'm just being optimistic, because you make it sound as though it does work in reptiles just like mammals.

I do NOT want to make it appear as dogs, it has NEVER happened in captivity with retiles to my knowledge..



You've come in answer to my prayers!? Except for the suggestion I might want to win the lottery. I assume she seems normal and healthy in all other respects? Because you didn't seem to mention otherwise, and no news is usually good news. What about the male?

Both animals are fine and dandy and have not missed a meal.. I will post a comparison picture for you.. IF ( 2 letters BIG word) these animals were to reproduce and little bitty eggs and babies were to appear the herp world would be turned upside down.. NOTHING like this has ever occurred before and may NEVER.. It is a far fetched dream.. But one can dream..



Oi, you know there are great personality differences, and the colour pattern. Fatter as well. Very likely, I will need to settle for a ball, but that isn't a bad compromise. Otherwise I would just go snakeless.

[Tim Mead]

http://rs429.pbsrc.com/albums/qq11/s...a3a17.jpg~c200
This clickable link will take you to my bucket the last photos loaded are of 2 two year old girls and you will notice a tremendous size difference....
The male can be seen on the FB link for Febuary 14, 2014 in a 55 chevy..

[jclaiborne]

http://rs429.pbsrc.com/albums/qq11/s...a3a17.jpg~c200
This clickable link will take you to my bucket the last photos loaded are of 2 two year old girls and you will notice a tremendous size difference....
The male can be seen on the FB link for Febuary 14, 2014 in a 55 chevy..

I like the posibility of a "smaller" version of a blood.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[DNACurtusK]

Hey Tim I was going to ask you that. In regards to your abnormally small female....Are you going to attempt to breed her then when she reaches appropriate age just to see? It'd be pretty crazy if she actually were able to produce a clutch, then it'd be even more interesting to see how small the babies would be. Did you ever repeat the breeding of her parents? If so, were they all normal sized as well?
It may be highly unlikely for her to be able to reproduce, but it's fun to think about for sure.

[Tim Mead]

Hey Tim I was going to ask you that. In regards to your abnormally small female....Are you going to attempt to breed her then when she reaches appropriate age just to see? It'd be pretty crazy if she actually were able to produce a clutch, then it'd be even more interesting to see how small the babies would be. Did you ever repeat the breeding of her parents? If so, were they all normal sized as well?
It may be highly unlikely for her to be able to reproduce, but it's fun to think about for sure.

Krystal, I will make an attempt, I don't know if I will try this fall at 30 months or wait another year.. She herself hatched at 15 grams in 2012 and ate 1st time offered, of course it had to be a pinky mouse, to this day she has only made it to small or just weaned rats.. It is a far fetched dream But I have dreamed of robin sized eggs and more at 15 grams.. The 30 gram at hatch male is a 2013 so I may to wait.. Till then I dream.. Of littler things..

[Dracoluna]

That would definitely be nice to see... Bloods are one species I'd like to keep but the size of my bp's scares my hubby already. Not that I wouldn't get one down the road anyways, but it would be easier and require less convincing that it will not eat him if it were a dwarf size.