Hint : It ain't 500%

[Pythonfriend]

well, all diamonds look unimpressive when uncut, and only look impressive after they are cut.









the first two are naturals, the second two are synthetics. i had trouble finding synthetics in high-end precision cuts.

for me, its not really about the fact that naturals are more expensive than synthetics, synthetics are expensive enough. the material is the same, the only real difference is that one has been mined, with all the implications of diamond mining, while the other has been created in the lab by scientists and engineers.

what you see in the end is the cut and the material. its curious that it matters so much where the material came from in the case of diamonds. when people buy a golden ring, i wonder it happens how often they ask if the gold is freshly mined or if it used to be a golden coin. as long as the gold is real gold and the ring is nicely crafted, people dont care. but with diamonds its a really big issue.

what matters the most to me is not if its a synthetic or natural diamond, but in the case of a natural diamond, i want to know that its not a blood diamond and that it has been mined in humane conditions. what i like about synthetics is the fancy colors, which are extremely rare in naturals, and that they are less of a burden to the environment. naturals still dominate when it comes to large high-clarity white diamonds. but the material is the same to me. what you see is the clarity, color, cut and size.

[BrandiR]

No one has ever asked me if the gold in a ring has been freshly mined. No one has ever asked me if the natural diamond they're buying was freshly mined either.

People do ask about gold all the time though. They want to know if it's "pure gold". They want to know if 10k, 14k, or 18k is better. They want to know if it will "turn their finger green".

People do care what they're buying, especially when they're spending a lot of money and presenting it to someone they love, which is usually the case in the jewelry business.

You've alluded to unethical diamond mining practices several times. I'd encourage you to read up on The Kimberley Process. Jewelers are human beings too and we are typically far more ethical than people give us credit for.

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[Pythonfriend]

the kimberley process would be nice, if it would work there is no impartial monitoring, so if you want that certificate for your conflict diamond, one corrupt participant of the kimberley process will be enough to ensure that you get the right paperwork.

human rights organisations say that the kimberley process would be nice if it would be implemented in such a way that it would actually work, but that it doesnt work due to lack of oversight. and the diamond industry says the kimberley process works, and doesnt offer any better alternatives.

also, the kimberley process is only targeted at conflict diamonds, that is, diamonds being used to buy weapons and/or fund terrorists or rebel groups. there is no system in place that would guarantee humane working conditions or safety of workers or prevention of child labor.

In order for a country to be a participant, it must ensure that any diamond originating from the country does not finance a rebel group or other entity seeking to overthrow a UN-recognized government, that every diamond export be accompanied by a Kimberley Process certificate and that no diamond is imported from, or exported to, a non-member of the scheme.

thats all there is to it. there may be modern-day slavery going on in the mines, as long as the mine is not being run by rebels, the diamonds will get their kimberley process certificates.

now if the kimberley process does not target poor working conditions and is not really effective in preventing conflict diamonds from entering the market, but when jewelers like to refer to it as an argument that the diamonds come from ethically sound sources, then the whole kimberley process is in fact only serving the purpose of a marketing tool.

[BrandiR]

the kimberley process would be nice, if it would work there is no impartial monitoring, so if you want that certificate for your conflict diamond, one corrupt participant of the kimberley process will be enough to ensure that you get the right paperwork.

human rights organisations say that the kimberley process would be nice if it would be implemented in such a way that it would actually work, but that it doesnt work due to lack of oversight. and the diamond industry says the kimberley process works, and doesnt offer any better alternatives.

also, the kimberley process is only targeted at conflict diamonds, that is, diamonds being used to buy weapons and/or fund terrorists or rebel groups. there is no system in place that would guarantee humane working conditions or safety of workers or prevention of child labor.


thats all there is to it. there may be modern-day slavery going on in the mines, as long as the mine is not being run by rebels, the diamonds will get their kimberley process certificates.

now if the kimberley process does not target poor working conditions and is not really effective in preventing conflict diamonds from entering the market, but when jewelers like to refer to it as an argument that the diamonds come from ethically sound sources, then the whole kimberley process is in fact only serving the purpose of a marketing tool.

You win. I give up.

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[KMG]

the kimberley process would be nice, if it would work there is no impartial monitoring, so if you want that certificate for your conflict diamond, one corrupt participant of the kimberley process will be enough to ensure that you get the right paperwork.

human rights organisations say that the kimberley process would be nice if it would be implemented in such a way that it would actually work, but that it doesnt work due to lack of oversight. and the diamond industry says the kimberley process works, and doesnt offer any better alternatives.

Here you go again saying things that you have seen on TV, read in a book, or saw on some site. Anybody can put anything on TV or the web(obviously) with their own twist, that's a known fact. PETA says things all the time that we know to be untrue or twisted and I think we can all agree that Animal Planet rolled a little farther down the hill with their mermaid special.

I think its great that you have a passion for so many things and you want to do your part to make the world a better place. However I think that everything should be questioned. The honest don't mind questions but the dishonest and the fact twisters do and that will be revealed when your questions can not be answered by them or their story unravels. Ask questions all the time especially when your thinking of fighting for somebody else. Don't find yourself as a pawn to further their own agenda.

As for yalls topic I bet the process works just fine when its being followed by honest folks but then rules are not made for honest folks. For as long as there have been rules and laws there have been people trying to get around them. No matter what process was put into place the dishonest diamond people are still going to be dishonest and try to find a way around them. That is life. Im not going to only buy lab created diamonds because of it.

[bcr229]

Sounds like you might actually prefer a simulated stone A good sized synthetic diamond is still going to be in the neighborhood of $1200. Well, unless you happen to have access to wholesale. Then you can pick one up for about $12.

I am so in the wrong industry!

[KMG]

I am so in the wrong industry!

Yea, me too.

I couldn't sell something for such a big mark up though. It sure doesn't make me want to buy a synthetic knowing all this now. Thanks for the insight Brandi.

[Pythonfriend]

Here you go again saying things that you have seen on TV, read in a book, or saw on some site. Anybody can put anything on TV or the web(obviously) with their own twist, that's a known fact. PETA says things all the time that we know to be untrue or twisted and I think we can all agree that Animal Planet rolled a little farther down the hill with their mermaid special.

I think its great that you have a passion for so many things and you want to do your part to make the world a better place. However I think that everything should be questioned. The honest don't mind questions but the dishonest and the fact twisters do and that will be revealed when your questions can not be answered by them or their story unravels. Ask questions all the time especially when your thinking of fighting for somebody else. Don't find yourself as a pawn to further their own agenda.

As for yalls topic I bet the process works just fine when its being followed by honest folks but then rules are not made for honest folks. For as long as there have been rules and laws there have been people trying to get around them. No matter what process was put into place the dishonest diamond people are still going to be dishonest and try to find a way around them. That is life. Im not going to only buy lab created diamonds because of it.

Yes, well, i do question everything and i do my research.

Here is how the kinberley process works, as i see it: it works on a national level. nations sign up for it. the responsibility that these nations have is to ensure that the mines they have are not controlled by rebels, and that the proceeds are not going to be used for any action that intends to overthrow a government that the UN recognizes. that are the rules, if you can fulfill the rules, you are now part of the kimberley process. now when you export them, they get transported in sealed boxes and they get the right kimberley certificates. and you are only supposed to export diamonds into other nations that are also part of the kimberley process.

when it is known that there are some mines under rebel control, or that diamonds are being used with intention to overthrow a government that is recognized by the UN, nations might get kicked out.

now the interesting part is: how is it enforced? that should determine how well the system works, because the way the system is set up, if some nations are not diligent enough, the process doesnt work properly because blood diamonds can just sneak in. and its not enforced at all. what actually happens is: when a diamond is FIRST moved from one kimberley process participant nation to another participant nation, it gets the paperwork, and noone checks anything. and now the diamond is in the system, and the paperwork follows the diamond from one nation to another, to the cutter, to the wholesaler, and in the end to the jewelry store/consumer.

so what happens to blood diamonds is that they are mined in nations that are not currently part of the kimberley process, due to civil war or failed governance. then you smuggle them to a nearby nation that is part of the kimberley process, and there you have your market to turn them into cash or gold or guns. from there, if that other nation has a diamond mine to explain whats going on, it enters the kimberley process and will be sold as such in a jewelry store anywhere in the 1st world.

now if the system doesnt work and there is no oversight and its being abused, you would expect some consequences: some nations that only have a very small capacity to mine diamonds might suddenly be mining a lot. and some nations that do not have diamonds in the ground might find some, dig a hole, call it a diamond mine, and the mine would produce quite a bit. and in some nations that do produce a lot and that have real mines, some mines might get a mysterious boost in effectivity. and thats just what happens, due to a lack of oversight it happens without consequence. the smuggling into kimberley process nations is also well-documented. and as a customer, you get your certificate, which should allow you to trace it back, and if you trace it back you might end up in a third-world nation that wasnt known to have any meaningful diamond reserves or production before 1990 but that now seems to have quite a few mines that do really well.

all that doesnt touch the issue that you can run your mines with slaves and children, as long as you are not a rebel and dont want to overthrow a government recognized by the UN. if you do that, you dont even need to work around the kimberley process, its fine, you just sign up. these are not blood diamonds, the whole process is only about diamonds that put bullets into people and that generate political instability.

so, the only real way to get a clean natural diamond is to buy from a dealer who does the work that the kimberley process wont do. which is to source stones from a particular mine that is not corrupt and where the working conditions are good, then send them to a cutting facility to have them all cut, then brand it, and then make the whole thing convincing and transparent. this is difficult. 60% of the rough diamond market still has a middleman called de beers, much of the rest is controlled by others that behave in a similar way. for an individual dealer, it is not easy to control the whole thing from the mine to the cut stone.

i am not against natural diamonds, i just wish it would be more transparent. and thats not an issue with the synthetics, here for larger diamonds you just know where they were produced. synthetics have the problem that its awfully difficult to produce white diamonds that are cheaper than naturals, and with all colors there still is the problem that the maximum size is very limited. in quality and price, synthetics only dominate blue color and other rare colors, and that only under 2 carat size. white synthetics are comparable in price to natural white diamonds.

[Raven01]

No one has ever asked me if the gold in a ring has been freshly mined. No one has ever asked me if the natural diamond they're buying was freshly mined either.

People do ask about gold all the time though. They want to know if it's "pure gold". They want to know if 10k, 14k, or 18k is better. They want to know if it will "turn their finger green".

People do care what they're buying, especially when they're spending a lot of money and presenting it to someone they love, which is usually the case in the jewelry business.

You've alluded to unethical diamond mining practices several times. I'd encourage you to read up on The Kimberley Process. Jewelers are human beings too and we are typically far more ethical than people give us credit for.

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Jewelers are no more or less ethical than anyone else.
That means, that some will be ethical, some will try to "look" ethical" and others are down right scumbags.

And, honestly, I am still floor that any thinks De Beers still does not control the majority of the diamond market. Sure the Russians messed them up a bit releasing a bunch of diamonds but, if people knew just how common diamonds are they would not have anywhere near the value they do except for the best examples with minimal flaw or large size better yet both.
Hell, De Beers affects the market for Canadian polar diamonds still.

If you want a real eye opener, if you travel South America. Visit areas around emerald "mines" and ask the locals what they are paid for what they bring in.
Not wishing to bring down any heat on these people is the only reason I chose not to outbid and run. Besides even with mark-up the local purchase price would stun most people in North America.

- - - Updated - - -

No one has ever asked me if the gold in a ring has been freshly mined. No one has ever asked me if the natural diamond they're buying was freshly mined either.

People do ask about gold all the time though. They want to know if it's "pure gold". They want to know if 10k, 14k, or 18k is better. They want to know if it will "turn their finger green".

People do care what they're buying, especially when they're spending a lot of money and presenting it to someone they love, which is usually the case in the jewelry business.

You've alluded to unethical diamond mining practices several times. I'd encourage you to read up on The Kimberley Process. Jewelers are human beings too and we are typically far more ethical than people give us credit for.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

Jewelers are no more or less ethical than anyone else.
That means, that some will be ethical, some will try to "look" ethical" and others are down right scumbags.

And, honestly, I am still floor that any thinks De Beers still does not control the majority of the diamond market. Sure the Russians messed them up a bit releasing a bunch of diamonds but, if people knew just how common diamonds are they would not have anywhere near the value they do except for the best examples with minimal flaw or large size better yet both.
Hell, De Beers affects the market for Canadian polar diamonds still.

If you want a real eye opener, if you travel South America. Visit areas around emerald "mines" and ask the locals what they are paid for what they bring in.
Not wishing to bring down any heat on these people is the only reason I chose not to outbid and run. Besides even with mark-up the local purchase price would stun most people in North America.

[Pythonfriend]

A good sized synthetic diamond is still going to be in the neighborhood of $1200. Well, unless you happen to have access to wholesale. Then you can pick one up for about $12.

guys and girls, i think this was meant as a joke just wanted to clarify, because other posts are quoting it. for high-clarity white diamonds the situation is that they are almost equally expensive, laboratory diamonds are just a little bit cheaper, and laboratory diamonds are limited to 2 carats in size.

so when you are looking for a 7000 dollar round brilliant cut white diamond, with high color and clarity and ideal cut, chances are that your cheapest option is a natural diamond. that holds true. you can get that as a laboratory diamond for 7000 as well, but there is no price difference. and larger white diamonds are only available as naturals, and in smaller diamonds the naturals still compete on an equal level with synthetics. currently the synthetic diamonds only rule in color. when it comes to fancy colors, they rule in price, because natural colored diamonds are extremely rare.