Long post regarding problem feeder with a stressful beginning

[Bo.]

Hello,
I’ve been a long time reptile/snake enthusiast and have had the pleasure of owning and caring for a few ball pythons over the years…a buddy of mine got real into this hobby a couple of years back in June of 2012 and invested a relatively large sum of money on some great animals – a genetic stripe male, a pair of axanthics, and a piebald that was to die for. I imparted upon him all of the knowledge I’ve gained through my experience, but he insisted he was fine and didn’t really discuss it with me too much afterwards. Several months later I came back to town in October, and got the chance to see his animals again…I was appalled at his husbandry efforts - heating pads turned off unknowingly, too small of hides, dirty enclosures, fast food napkins as the substrate choice, their tubs scattered about his bedroom floor with dirty towels to block lights. I discussed my concerns with him before I left and he told me later he corrected them that very evening by spending some money on new heating pads, genuine paper towels as substrate, cleaned the tubs thoroughly, and he had positioned them better within his house.
Long story short, two weeks later I received an unfortunate call about one of his animals and he didn’t know what was wrong for sure but thought his piebald had been burned somehow. I immediately went to his house to examine the damage – it was pretty rough; ugly pink and red blisters taking up just shy of 2/3rds the animal’s belly. To my dismay I saw the conditions were roughly the same, cages still dirty, reptile specific heating pads with NO thermostat to speak of. I was able to take the pied home and begin nursing him back to health. From November 2012 to June of 2013 is the length of time it took for him to fully recover and for there to be no trace of the burn that had nearly cost him his life. The pied was rightfully “mine” at this point and I continued to feed him, gradually increasing the prey’s size until he was eating rats and still very lively and alert and not refusing his weekly meal all the way up until October of 2013 that is.
The same friend contacted me about his male/female axanthic (he got them mixed up and now didn’t know male from female) not accepting prey items like they used to and asked if I could try and get her eating again…it had been several weeks. I accepted the challenge and was much more pleased with the husbandry quality I saw this time. For the next couple of weeks she was a picky eater refusing the meals but not to worry because my pied was happy to make up for it. Eventually I was able to get her to take a live mouse, and by live mouse I mean completely void of human interaction…free-for-all, anything goes. The axanthic would eat multiple mice this way and her/his activity level increased greatly. It was about this time when my friend contacted me again and informed me that he’d picked up a super pastel het. genetic stripe female so I could hold on to the axanthic for a while so he could get the new girl situated; fine by me. Two months later he contacted me worried as heck for the life of his genetic stripe, and come to find out his husbandry efforts had digressed even further than initially, and the genetic stripe had apparently been burned by the same heating pad mistake, only to have had the heating pad quit working after this episode (unknowingly!) and the snake to have been left in a moist and partially unheated enclosure. After a trip to the “paws-n-claws” exotic veterinarian nearly 2 hours away I was to care for this animal in an attempt to administer the antibiotic shots, provide a sterile environment, and monitor the health of this animal because of having an additional room to do so. Longest-long-story ever short, on Thanksgiving of 2013 the genetic stripe passed away with only one antibiotic shot left to go, an extra wasted trip to the vet, and absolutely no inquiry from my friend regarding his animals well being. I have since returned the axanthic to his care and no longer speak with this “friend” as a great feeling of disappointment has since replaced the friendship that was.
My problem…today’s time…is that ever since Thanksgiving, my piebald has yet to eat again. I have tried every known effort. 100% sterilized clean environment after any bowel movement, every kind of prey size possible (pinkies/hoppers/small/etc.) of either rats or mice, I have ensured that temps are spot on via thermostat and that the rooms ambient temperature is at 80 degrees at any given point- 78 degrees lowest during the winter months. I have tried scenting the prey with gerbil even! I ensure he has clean water daily. I have left him in complete privacy unless he is actively moving about...he is still lively and alert and if left to free-roam he can scale any couch/shelf/ledge you could hope for…he still possesses spirit but since he hasn’t eaten since November, this will have been the longest period an animal I have owned has gone without food and because he wasn’t the largest ball python to begin with, I am becoming increasingly concerned with his weight and well being.
I apologize for such a lengthy post but that is the whole kit & caboodle. I come to you fine folks for wisdom/reassurance and hope that anyone with reasonable advice will take the time to reply. I’ve tried 99.9% of everything I’ve read regarding problem feeders and what not, but unless that .01% is additional patience, I couldn’t live with myself knowing that if I’d just left a detailed post maybe I’d get the right idea/advice from someone with the knowledge of how to handle this. It’s always worth a shot and I’m not too proud to ask a question so there we have it…How can I get this dude to eat!?!?
-Bo

[dr del]

Hi,

How has his weight been from the time he stopped eating - trying to get an idea on if he is losing condition or not.

How do you offer his food?

Is he large enough to be intrested in breeding?

What was he eating before the fast?

It's not that uncommon for males to go off feeding during the winter as you know but I just wondered if anything has changed in his environment?


dr del

[Bo.]

Hello and thanks for the response,

Since the beginning of his fast he has certainly lost weight. To be entirely honest I have no idea how much specifically, or what his starting weight was. I do recall weighing him at one point after his fast had begun and he weighed in over 650 grams though. I haven't had the opportunity to use that scale again to weigh him as of now though...

I've selected his prey items and offered them in every way possible (F/T, live, thumped, etc.) And had continued to offer him weekly/bi weekly as his fast has progressed. Prior to the fast he had worked up to a small rat each feeding session and I've offered him everything since in an effort to stimulate his desire to feed. He has refused everything and in every manner of presentation.

There have been no environmental changes minus the addition/removal of my friends animals in a separate room...crazy as it sounds I've pondered what communication may be to these animals and if they could sense one another and if that could have played a role in any of this. I hadn't intended to breed him and have never done so before, therefore I don't know if he was interested in breeding or not...though it is possible he may have been exposed to a female axanthics presence during the course of all this.

[dr del]

Would you say he has lost a worrying amount of weight though? Is his body condition still ok?

At that weight he probably is capable of breeding so might be in breeding mode.

I find my males require less food than a female of the same size and usually feed slightly smaller prey items as a consequence. I have one which goes on a winter fast every year despite that though.

I think, unless there are other bad signs/ symptoms of disease, You should just keep monitoring and offering now and again - though I would suggest trying a day old chick as a tempting treat as some of mine go daft for them.

There is also a thread by Justin Kobylka that has some intresting theories and strategy's.

[Bo.]

A day old chick? As in a bird prey item? That is the most bizarre coincidence as I was messing with him last night and for whatever reason that very idea crossed my mind because of the way he was climbing about, kinda looked like he wished he was in a tree...where do you find these or better yet how do you buy one from a petstore without raising eyebrows?

All the same I appreciate the link, I'll check it out and give it a read. Thanks again for the response.

[Zach Cedor]

One good thing to try would be to change the bedding your using for him. I had a girl go off feed for 6 months although she lost very little weight i was still worried sick. So i tried everything including enviromental changes such as smaller tub different substrates (brown painters paper, paper towels, eco earth, cypress mulch. Also a more secure hide maybe smaller hide or even multiple hides could all help to make your snake feel more secure. another suggestion is if you dont own a scale that can weigh in grams i would look at purchasing one, Got mine from wal-mart for about 15$ i would continue to keep a close eye on his weight if the weight lose gets drastic you might need to look at other options, but for now the most important thing is patience i know its hard to do trust me but eventually he will eat for you again! good luck btw i would love to see some pics of this pied boy!

[Bo.]

Hey thanks for the tip concerning the different substrates...currently I am using bounty paper towels that dont get soaking wet and ruined from misting...they seem to be working well and the temps and humidity are fine thus far. I've bought him a different hide already, its cozy and fits him great but while he uses it from time to time he is far more interested in curling up on his piece of driftwood it seems; he loves to climb.

Here are a few pictures since you asked.

[Zach Cedor]

Hey thanks for the tip concerning the different substrates...currently I am using bounty paper towels that dont get soaking wet and ruined from misting...they seem to be working well and the temps and humidity are fine thus far. I've bought him a different hide already, its cozy and fits him great but while he uses it from time to time he is far more interested in curling up on his piece of driftwood it seems; he loves to climb.Here are a few pictures since you asked.

Great looking pied boy! i recommend reading justin kobylka's blog regarding problem feeders it has a lot of insight into reasons behind ball python fast i would definitely attempt to change substrate as well this will mainly represent a new envirmoment to the bp which could put him right back into the feeding mode! good luck im sure he will eat with enough time!

[dr del]

A day old chick? As in a bird prey item? That is the most bizarre coincidence as I was messing with him last night and for whatever reason that very idea crossed my mind because of the way he was climbing about, kinda looked like he wished he was in a tree...where do you find these or better yet how do you buy one from a petstore without raising eyebrows?

All the same I appreciate the link, I'll check it out and give it a read. Thanks again for the response.

Yes,

They are quite common over here as a prey item - most places sell them frozen in bags of 25 or 50.

They are very cheap are aren't bad as a food source - though they can cause a heck of a stinky poo or two.

[Bo.]

Awesome I'll check for them the next time I go to the pet store - I've not got but 3 pet stores within 20 miles so is there a website to order them from? If a stinky mess is the worst that can happen from the attempt consider me game lol

I'll change the substrate immediately and give that a try too. Is there a preferred or is it all kind of the same sorta deal. If so, the coconut husk substrate seems the most cost efficient and maintainable - will this suffice? I have only used it in the past with a Peruvian red tail boa...worked pretty good though?