What should UTH temperatures be for burrowing snake?

[Mark Z]

Hello everyone! I recently purchased a juvenile male ball python from the Tinley Park, IL reptile convention last month and I have a question regarding temperatures. First of all I have owned many types of reptiles throughout my life and understand the husbandry needed for different types of reptiles but I have never owned a snake. I have been lurking on this forum for months and used a couple of the glass tank setup guides to help setup my current tank. Our snake has been doing great but has recently started burrowing once I changed the substrate to the finely shredded coco husk. He burrows under the substrate and moss but he is still partially exposed. I am worried now that he is burrowing that the UTH may be set to high. My question is should I lower the temperature of the UTHs now that he is burrowing? He does not burrow all of the time. He spends more time switching from cool hide to warm hide than burrowing. I'm afraid if I lower the temperatures on the UTHs that the actual temperature under the hides and on top of the substrate will be too low. Also, do my overall temperatures and setting seem correct? Below is a list of my set up and temperature/thermostat listings.

Enclosure = 36x12x12 glass tank with screen top. 1/3 of each end of screen is covered with plexiglass
Heat lamp= (located in center of screen top)= Zoo Med mini combo deep dome fixture with 60 watt daylight blue & 60 watt night time red (lights are on alternating 12 hr. timers)
(2) under tank heaters = One located at each end. Each connected to a Hydrofarm digital thermostat. Thermostat probe is located under tank, directly on heat pads (between glass and UTH).
(2) digital thermometers/humidity gauge with probes = One located on each end. Probe is inside tank, located on center of UTHs
Water bowl = (1) located under heat lamp
Substrate = Kritter's Crumble all natural coconut husk fiber, fine (1/2" deep above UTHs, sloping to about 1" deep at bank of tank/2" deep at center of tank)
Sphagnum moss = Located around side and back edges of tank
Hides = (2 identical reptile basics small hides. One at warm side, one at cool side)
Multiple plastic plants for hiding underneath and a large repti-vine for climbing.
Back and sides of tanks are covered with rain forest design tropical backgrounds for privacy.
Spray bottle for misting of moss
Reptifogger as needed for shedding (Has not shed yet!)
Temperature gun

Temperatures:
ambient temperature = 82 degrees
Warm side thermostat setting = 104 degrees
Actual temperature of glass above UTH on warm side = 98 to 99 degrees
Actual temperature on top of substrate on warm side = 93 degrees
Cool side thermostat setting = 98 degrees
Actual temperature of glass above UTH on warm side = 88 to 90 degrees
Actual temperature on top of substrate on warm side = 84 degrees
Humidity = 60-70%

Thanks for any upcoming replies!

Mark

[NH93]

That is too warm for your snake!
The hot side belly temp should be around 90F!! Ambient/cool side should be around 80F!
With a tank of that size you definitely do not need 2 UTH! You want to provide a heat gradient with one end wamr (90F) and one end cool (80F)! Remove one UTH for sure.

The thermometer probe should be attached to the inside of the bottom of the glass, atop the middle of the UTH. The UTH probe should be on the outside between the glass and the UTH stick side - although some people put it beside the thermometer probe inside the tank. Both can work fine.

You should be measuring and adjusted the heat for the hottest part that the snake can reach - which the the bottom of the glass. This is not just for ball pythons who enjoy burrowing.

Thank you for providing all of that information though. I personally appreciate it, as it makes answering your questions much easier. I wish everyone did that

[Mark Z]

Thanks for the reply. Sorry I did not state but the thermometer probes are located on top of the glass, directly over the UTHs. The reason I have (2) UTH is because if I do not have one on the cool side, when i check the surface temp. with the heat gun, it measured around 70 degrees. I assumed it was too low for the cool side. I seem to be confused regarding surface temperatures. I thought I needed correct temperatures on top of the substrate, not below. I read in one of the tank setups on this forum (http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ass-tank-setup) that they recommended (2) UTHs with a 30" long glass tank. That guide specifically list temperature at top of substrate. My temps are only a degree or two off of theirs. I know my thermostat setting is high but the actual temperature on the glass bottom is about 10 degrees less than the thermostat settings.

By the way, the temperature in my house is typically around 67 degrees. Most people think our house is cold but we don't like the heat. Even in summer, we set the AC to about 68 at the highest.

[bcr229]

For now I would shut off the current "warm side" UTH, and leave the "cool side" UTH settings alone as it'll be fine as the warm side. Over the winter if your room temperature drops and you have a hard time maintaining the ambient temp, you can turn the unused UTH back on, but set so that it's around 80*F.

ETA: Looks like we were both posting at the same time. I would set the warm side UTH so the glass is no hotter than 93*F, and the cool side so the glass is around 80*F, since your snake likes to burrow down and lay on them.

[kir.davis]

Thanks for the question and the replies. I am also a new ball python owner and this was very helpful especially since I am thinking of switching to Kritter's Crumble (KC). I am currently using Aspen and I am noticing that I am allergic to it. I will look into the thermostat if my BP starts to burrow (I didn't know they existed). To piggyback off this question, what are all of your thoughts on Kritter's Crumble? I can't find anyone in MN that has heard of it, and in general they keep telling me that coconut husk products like the eco earth is more likely to cause an URI. Is this the same case with KC?

-K

[CptJack]

You need a thermostat with or without a burrowing snake. When I measured the one I was using without one, it was running at < 130 degrees. That's *WITHOUT* malfunction, and glass is a great heat conductor. It's a great recipe for cooked or burned snake the first time it decides to burrow at 3 a.m while you're asleep. They're relatively inexpensive and really, really NOT optional anymore than heat itself is.

[Mark Z]

I now have the enclosure set up the correct way. I still have to use both UTHs since our house temperature is about 67 degrees. Warm side underneath 1/2" of substrate is 92 degrees and cool side is 82 degrees. I had to increase the day and night bulbs to 75 watt since the ambient temperature was in the low to mid 70s. Ambient is now between 82 and 84 degrees. Humidity is between 50-70% with misting once at night. I will start using the fogger with a shedding. Before the snake would be out climbing the glass 2 or three times a day. Now he spends the day in his cool hide and when I wake up, he is in the warm hide. He has not burrowed since I adjusted the temperatures. He is due for a feeding Saturday but I think he may be getting ready for a shed. I have had him for about 5 1/2 weeks but he has not shed yet. His head and sides seem like they have a dull sheen and he also seemed a little stiff when i held him yesterday. He has eaten a small mouse every 6 days and has defecated about 4 times in that span.

I used aspen for the first 4 weeks but I did not like it since it didn't seem to hold the humidity well. The coconut husk works way better for humidity. I have not read anything regarding coco-husk and respiratory infections. Anyone have any comments regarding that?

Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions. Feel free to let me know if I am still doing something wrong!

Mark

[kir.davis]

Your set up sounds good to me. My snake is in the middle of her shed. She has been in the process for 2 weeks now and she has been in hiding. I have a shed box with moss in it that I keep damp and she has been in there the whole time. She should shed her skin in the next few days. Do not be surprised if your snake goes into hiding for the whole time and gets really shy.