Dealing with suspicious breeders

[threezero]

hey guys… i hate to have to post it here… but after months of email exchange with this breeder. I don't know what i should do...

Heres the story

back in august of last year. i was made aware of this beautiful 3 gene male that was hatched out but by the breeder. we exchange emails and settle on a price of 2400$. i pay him a $500 depost at that time. due to my financial situation at the time i was not able to pay it in full, however the breeder allow me to take as long as i want to finish the payment. During this period he has sent me around 2-3 photos of the snake.

fast forward to december of 2013. I have completed the payment, at this time i ask for the snake to be shipped. however the breeder told me that he is afraid to ship because it negative 10 degree where he is and he has had dead snakes when he shipped like this (red flag no1: i have receive snakes by heated cargo through air canada in similar weather and it was fine if it was package properly)

so at this point i give him the benefit of the doubt, and told him i would wait as he did waited patiently for my payment.
One month later, i email him again asking if it is save to shipped. At this time he reply with saying that he is now oversea dude to family emergency. soooo no shipping….

ok I trust him again, during aug to dec while i was making payment to him i had a family emergency too and that led to me not being able to pay the full payment, so i feel like i should give him the benefit of the doubt. At this time he said that he has an assistant watching him snakes while he is away and would tell the assistant to shipped the snake when the weather permits. at this point i ask again for a picture of the snake. He said he will get me picture when he comes back but did not give me solid date on when he will be back home. Here i got a little impatient and press for picture as i know he has a caretaker for the snake. he claims his caretaker does not own a cellphone or a camera. When i press further about when he would be back in town. he wrote me an email basically saying all this shipping delay is my fault, if i had paid way back in aug i would not have this problem and that he would not be back in town unless the weather get hotter. he said since i took 4 months to pay i should at least have the patience to wait the same amount of time.

I was quite furious at this point, but i swallow it alright i pay a lot for this snake, and i have plan to breed it and he is right i did took 4 months to pay. i really want the snake, even though at this point i have way overpay for him, the price for this combo has come down and i have already miss crucial breeding time with my females.

so i waited a full 4 month from when i made the last payment, email him at the beginning of april. Here i appear to have good new, he told me he will be back next thursday (that last week) and that he will shipped immediately when he gets back. i waited for that thursday, no email. waited 2 more days, no email. So i email him back yesterday asking when i will get my snake.

heres what he told me: he came back to his facility and it was a disaster, he had electrical problem and the snake was not heated for 2 weeks, he had many sick and dead snake. he will sort this out and ship me the snake asap.
(red flag: WHERE WAS HIS CARETAKER!!! even if he doesn't know the heat is off, wouldn't he have notice the dead snake?)

at this point i'm very worry, that
1. he will keep on giving me excuse and never shipped the snake and i'm out of my hard earn money
2. he will shipped me a sick snake that either doa or very soon after, blame me for it. our of hard earn money…
3. he will shipped me a different snake than the one i bought…..


at this point i'm not sure if i even want to deal with him anymore. i put my trust in him because he suppose to be a pretty big breeder in his area. I didn't do a check on his feedback and it was not very good… many customer complain about his lying and general bad customer service etc but the health of his animal wasn't really a problem.

I would be happy right now to either get my money back or my snake (alive and healthy of course).

i'm not sure what to do. i give him my address at this point and waiting to see what he tell me about health guarantee at this point. I don't want to expose the breeder yet as this could still end well. however i also have a feeling he would be refund me the money if anything goes wrong.

This is the first time i have pay this much for a snake and i had so much hope breeding it. not this is making me very feeling very shady about snake breeder and breeding in general. at this point i realize.. if all goes wrong, this is no way of getting all or any of my money back…..

please if anybody have been in similar situation, please advice me on what to do?

[threezero]

TL: DR version

pay deposit for snake in aug 2013
complete payment of snake in dec 2013

many excuse from breeder
breeder went on vacation

current:
-breeder back from vacation
-breeder came back to a mess up facility with many dead/sick snakes
-my snake still haven't shipped and its health status unknown
-have not receive updates picture of my snake since dec 2013
-breeder just made another promise to ship asap….

[PitOnTheProwl]

Personally it should matter outing the breeder.
I would like to know who to keep an eye on.
You are not saying anything good or bad, just stating that the transaction is not completed yet.

[bcr229]

So i email him back yesterday asking when i will get my snake.

heres what he told me: he came back to his facility and it was a disaster, he had electrical problem and the snake was not heated for 2 weeks, he had many sick and dead snake. he will sort this out and ship me the snake asap.

That could mean a lot of things. Is the snake you purchased one of the sick ones? If so, it shouldn't be shipped until it's been treated and is healthy - and honestly, I'd QT it for a lot longer than normal in that case which essentially means he won't be breeding this season. So, ASAP could be another month or so if it's sick.

I guess you could try to find someone local to him to go look at the snake and make sure it's healthy before it gets shipped to you, if you can get the seller to agree.

[Pythonfriend]

the first thing that is obviously needed to make this right is an update on the condition of your specific snake. that should happen pretty much immediately.

and then it either has to be shipped as soon as the animal can handle it, or you need a full refund.

[wilomn]

Get your money back. If you used a credit card, file a complaint. Go to the real BOI over on Fauna and PUT HIS NAME up. That should get you a quick reply.

Who is this guy?

[ManInTheSun]

A true shame, it seem money can pervert just about anything. Our beloved hobby has become viewed as a gold mine for some, with some snakes valued in the thousands of dollars its inevitable that some snakes will find their way into the hands of people only in it for the money.

I've never been a fan of acquiring animals over the internet mainly because most of the people I've corresponded with lacked... Let's say enthusiasm sure I don't have a hundred snakes and maybe I don't know what its like to dredge through countless emails dealing with flakes and bull spitters but I know to me my pets are my children they rely on me for their survival and would never think to say things like " how can I possibly know how many times it has shed" or "you shouldn't be asking all these questions if you don't know how to care for them then don't get one" and my personal favorite "these are blowout prices I can't waste my time meeting you halfway, shipping overnight is no different than picking them up in person"

I don't ask questions because I don't know how to care for them, I ask them because I want to know that YOU care about them.

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

[threezero]

Ok. Update on the situation

he sent me an email back. The snake I bought it unfournately on of the die ones

the boy I bought was a enchi fire yb and it fit in with what I have plan for my 2 females (butter pastel and bumblebee)

he he is offering me 2 solutions right now. He will either sent me a proven breeder male marvel (citrus pastel spectre yb) or I wait till may for his clutch to hatch which according to him will for sure have a enchi fire yb in it.

Notice refund is not one of the option he listed.

Im im a little lost at what to do. On one hand in slightly interested in the marvel as it is more expensive than enchi fire yb. On the other hand I'm not very impress with the resulting double gene animal I might get (spectre spider etc)
i still very much want an enchi fire yb. It seems to be quite hard to find. However I feel like I should have to wait another few months and pay the same price. What do you guys think I should do?

[RockNRollProcelain]

I think you should demand a refund. And if he refuses, contact your credit card company or whatever you used to pay, submit a complaint, stop the payment, etc. You paid for goods/services that he failed to provide. He needs to refund your money at the very least. You need to out this breeder, as the whole situation sounds fraudulent. I would NOT under any circumstances agree to another snake from him, particularly not waiting for one. There is NO guarantee that he could provide you the snake you want, and the likelihood that you would ever see that snake? Slim to none. Do yourself a favor and get your money back, then go find a reputable breeder to get your snake from.

And please let us know who this guys is. I don't want to find myself in the same situation with this guy. =/

Edit: To be honest, your snake probably never existed. That's what it sounds like to me anyways.

[Commandokev]

Agreed. The snake probably never existed and odds are you will never get a snake from this guy. Get your money back!