New project super orange dream : How to manage it?

[darkranger69]

I booked a 350gr 1.0 spider fire OD from Ozzyboids. It should be shipped when the weather will allowed it.
With this boys i have 2 targets: the amazing super OD spider fire YB and what's between this dream ball. And make a super OD desert ghost, never be done yet but no one will doubt about it greatfullness...

IF i m lucky i may get 1/2 late lock on my lazy girl those may lay in september. but let 's say : it s next breeding season project.

My breeder males are : leopard spotnose/// killerbee///superstripe next year they maybe replace by their son if i get good odds (leospotYBpastel,pastelSS...)

the girls i believe suit to this project are:

YB 2200gr in pre lay shed
YB 1850gr gravid now
superpastel YB 1600gr laying soon
superpastel YB 1550gr building
enchi 1100gr should go next year
Enchi X(kind of chocolate) 1650gr expecting her to go late
Lesser 1600gr ( arrives at the end of the month)
dark mojave 1100gr eat like a pig
bright mojave 900gr eat like a pig i would bet on her for next year as well

I also have those girls but I think they dont fit the project:
blackpastel 2000gr SS project
spider 1350gr better on leopard spotnose project
bumblebee 1700gr gravid/ better on leopard spotnose project
lemon pastel 1500gr gravid/ better on leopard spotnose project
lemon pastel granite 1200gr better on leopard spotnose project
het. Russo 2100gr refuse locking ( assign to a lesser het. clown male because my girlfriend want a leucistic. better forget that beauty)
Cinnamon 1350gr may not go as she was born in december 2012 ( yeah it s a pig) not assign on any project
Cinnamon 1000gr just out of a bad RI now not assign on any project for next year
lemonblast 1000gr better on leopard spotnose project if she get ready.... lazy girl
normal 1800gr depends on what come out of a dinker project but should be bred to my killer boy to make some bees ( easy sale here)
pastel 2100gr better on leopard spotnose project

first question which girls will you put on this project and why????
Remember i need to sale everything that is not suit to my project to buy at least 0.4 desert ghost.


Do you think as i do believe that the pastel gene is not welcome in this project?

What about my spider and bumblebee girls? Should i avoid that 25% super spider risk???



my priority 5 girls are now:

0.2 YB
0.1 Enchi X
0.1 lesser
0.1 dark mojave

and maybe one superpastel YB if my boy is a good f***.

i can expect 20 to 30 eggs so lets say 8 to 20 orange dream gene carriers and 3 to 12 females.

the point is my male already have spider and fire gene adding the YB from my girls all of them bringing a problem when 3 years later i will breed him to its daughters:

spider * spider 25% dead embryo????
fire * fire 25% leucistic
YB * YB 25% ivory.

solution: keep one or two boys according to what morph girls come out the first year with OD lesser and OD enchi + a 4 gene boy
to replace his father if i hit the odds.

What will you do?

Any input will be welcome especially from people used to deal with spider and leucistic problems.

[Pythonfriend]

so you purchase a orange dream fire spider male, and you want to produce super orange dream fire spider yellowbelly.

i think the easy part will be to get the orange dream + extra gene-combos you need, basically the only thing that is missing is orange dream yellowbelly, and you have a bunch of females with yellowbelly. so the harder part would be to get to super orange dream + extra genes. which means you will need to raise up female orange dreams.

i would not worry about producing super fire + extra genes or ivory + extra genes at all. even if its hard to see whats in them, they are still really really nice snakes. and when they prove out, they can help a lot with the project.

but lets look at the odds. the hypothetical goal would be: super orange dream fire YB (im just looking at the lucy/ivory issue). and ill do two calculations, one with a pairing that avoids lucys and ivorys, and one pairing that doesnt avoid it.

Male:	Orange Dream, Fire
Female:	Yellow Belly, Orange Dream
Percent	Fraction	Traits
6.25%	1/16	Yellow Belly, Super Orange Dream, Fire
12.5%	1/8	Yellow Belly, Orange Dream, Fire
6.25%	1/16	Yellow Belly, Fire
6.25%	1/16	Super Orange Dream, Fire
12.5%	1/8	Orange Dream, Fire
6.25%	1/16	Fire
6.25%	1/16	Yellow Belly, Super Orange Dream
12.5%	1/8	Yellow Belly, Orange Dream
6.25%	1/16	Yellow Belly
6.25%	1/16	Super Orange Dream
12.5%	1/8	Orange Dream
6.25%	1/16	Normal
View Results Page

the chances to produce the super OD yellowbelly fire are 1/16, or 6.25%

and the second one:

Male:	Yellow Belly, Orange Dream, Fire
Female:	Yellow Belly, Orange Dream, Fire
Percent	Fraction	Traits
1.5625%	1/64	Black Eyed Leucistic, Super Orange Dream, Ivory
3.125%	1/32	Orange Dream, Black Eyed Leucistic, Ivory
1.5625%	1/64	Black Eyed Leucistic, Ivory
3.125%	1/32	Yellow Belly, Black Eyed Leucistic, Super Orange Dream
6.25%	1/16	Yellow Belly, Orange Dream, Black Eyed Leucistic
3.125%	1/32	Yellow Belly, Black Eyed Leucistic
1.5625%	1/64	Black Eyed Leucistic, Super Orange Dream
3.125%	1/32	Orange Dream, Black Eyed Leucistic
1.5625%	1/64	Black Eyed Leucistic
3.125%	1/32	Super Orange Dream, Fire, Ivory
6.25%	1/16	Orange Dream, Fire, Ivory
3.125%	1/32	Fire, Ivory
6.25%	1/16	Yellow Belly, Super Orange Dream, Fire
12.5%	1/8	Yellow Belly, Orange Dream, Fire
6.25%	1/16	Yellow Belly, Fire
3.125%	1/32	Super Orange Dream, Fire
6.25%	1/16	Orange Dream, Fire
3.125%	1/32	Fire
1.5625%	1/64	Super Orange Dream, Ivory
3.125%	1/32	Orange Dream, Ivory
1.5625%	1/64	Ivory
3.125%	1/32	Yellow Belly, Super Orange Dream
6.25%	1/16	Yellow Belly, Orange Dream
3.125%	1/32	Yellow Belly
1.5625%	1/64	Super Orange Dream
3.125%	1/32	Orange Dream
1.5625%	1/64	Normal
View Results Page

yep, it looks complicated. you get a lot of ivorys and lucys.

but the chances to produce the super OD yellowbelly fire are 1/16, or 6.25%. the same as in the first breeding. you now get 1/4 ivory combos and 1/4 super fire combos, but the odds for the target morph (super OD fire YB) just stay the same.

the chances to produce the most basic stuff, like "normal" or "OD fire" or "yellowbelly" are cut down in the second pairing. but the chances to hit your target dont change. which is obvious if you look at just one gene, lets say fire: fire to normal gives 50% fire, 50% normals. your target is single-gene fire. so 50% will be right. fire to fire gives 25% normals, 50% fire, 25% super fire. and again, 50% are the single-gene fires that you want.

and to take it over the top, super fire to fire gives you 50% super fire, 50% fire. lets try that with the calculator, just for fun.

Male:	Orange Dream, Black Eyed Leucistic, Ivory
Female:	Yellow Belly, Orange Dream, Fire
Percent	Fraction	Traits
6.25%	1/16	Black Eyed Leucistic, Super Orange Dream, Ivory
12.5%	1/8	Orange Dream, Black Eyed Leucistic, Ivory
6.25%	1/16	Black Eyed Leucistic, Ivory
6.25%	1/16	Yellow Belly, Black Eyed Leucistic, Super Orange Dream
12.5%	1/8	Yellow Belly, Orange Dream, Black Eyed Leucistic
6.25%	1/16	Yellow Belly, Black Eyed Leucistic
6.25%	1/16	Super Orange Dream, Fire, Ivory
12.5%	1/8	Orange Dream, Fire, Ivory
6.25%	1/16	Fire, Ivory
6.25%	1/16	Yellow Belly, Super Orange Dream, Fire
12.5%	1/8	Yellow Belly, Orange Dream, Fire
6.25%	1/16	Yellow Belly, Fire
View Results Page

chances to hit your goal are still at 1/16. so, there is absolutely no reason to avoid black eyed lucys or ivorys, none at all.

[Pythonfriend]

i dont know anything about desert ghost, are these compatible with the regular mainstream lines of ghost? like hypo or orange ghost?

but i doubt that you need 4 female desert ghosts for your project. 2 females should be enough. first you breed your orange dream to both, and hope for male orange dream het desert ghosts. female orange dream het desert ghosts would also be nice. then you breed orange dream het desert ghost to desert ghost, hoping to hit orange dream desert ghost. and you breed orange dream het desert ghost to orange dream het desert ghost, hoping to produce maybe the super OD desert ghost, or at least things like super OD possible het desert ghost, or OD desert ghost. if the odd gods still fail you, you can advance to more promising pairings, like: OD desert ghost to OD desert ghost, or OD desert ghost to OD het desert ghost, or super OD possible het desert ghost to OD desert ghost. either you get lucky and hit 1/16 early on, or you raise up hatchlings that get you closer to the goal and do pairings that produce your target with better odds, like 1/8 or 1/4. and eventually you get it.

i think 2 desert ghost females should be more than enough to start it. but i still wonder: why not use a regular line of ghost, or why not go for axanthic instead?


oh, and... i agree with mostly keeping pastel out of it. its not too bad to have it floating around, but here i think it could wash out the pattern a bit. i would add enchi into the project, maybe cinnamon (if it is one that doesnt mess with the pattern too much, meaning, not like a black pastel), maybe a BEL gene like mojave or lesser. i think these could work well with a super OD project.

[darkranger69]

Thanks , for your stats. Very helpfull. But you forgot the spider gene which is also messing around. Is the homo form lethal or not. If it s , i must avoid it.

I also think enchi will be a very nice bonus on this project but not the cinnamon. Cinnamon will make busy patterns and this is not that i m looking for. Lesser might be nice but instead of fire not both together it will wash out the colors too much i think.

The desert ghost is different from axanthic which brown out with age. And different from hypos which dull and orange the snake. But both will be nice on a super od i guess. It s just my personal taste .

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THANKS , FOR YOUR STATS. VERY HELPFULL. BUT YOU FORGOT THE SPIDER GENE WHICH IS ALSO MESSING AROUND. IS THE HOMO FORM LETHAL OR NOT. IF IT S , I MUST AVOID IT.

I ALSO THINK ENCHI WILL BE A VERY NICE BONUS ON THIS PROJECT BUT NOT THE CINNAMON. CINNAMON WILL MAKE BUSY PATTERNS AND THIS IS NOT THAT I M LOOKING FOR. LESSER MIGHT BE NICE BUT INSTEAD OF FIRE NOT BOTH TOGETHER IT WILL WASH OUT THE COLORS TOO MUCH I THINK.

THE DESERT GHOST IS DIFFERENT FROM AXANTHIC WHICH BROWN OUT WITH AGE. AND DIFFERENT FROM HYPOS WHICH DULL AND ORANGE THE SNAKE. BUT BOTH WILL BE NICE ON A SUPER OD I GUESS. IT S JUST MY PERSONAL TASTE .

- - - Updated - - -

THANKS , FOR YOUR STATS. VERY HELPFULL. BUT YOU FORGOT THE SPIDER GENE WHICH IS ALSO MESSING AROUND. IS THE HOMO FORM LETHAL OR NOT. IF IT S , I MUST AVOID IT.

I ALSO THINK ENCHI WILL BE A VERY NICE BONUS ON THIS PROJECT BUT NOT THE CINNAMON. CINNAMON WILL MAKE BUSY PATTERNS AND THIS IS NOT THAT I M LOOKING FOR. LESSER MIGHT BE NICE BUT INSTEAD OF FIRE NOT BOTH TOGETHER IT WILL WASH OUT THE COLORS TOO MUCH I THINK.

THE DESERT GHOST IS DIFFERENT FROM AXANTHIC WHICH BROWN OUT WITH AGE. AND DIFFERENT FROM HYPOS WHICH DULL AND ORANGE THE SNAKE. BUT BOTH WILL BE NICE ON A SUPER OD I GUESS. IT S JUST MY PERSONAL TASTE .