To Breed or Not To Breed? That is the question..

[Tarzan152]

I've been contemplating posting this thread for a while for concern that I may offend some members here but after some thought, I'm thinking where else am I going to raise this question/issue? The question of breeding/what to breed/how to start breeding is a common topic here and I'm always wondering if its a good idea to start breeding in the first place. Long story short: Why do you want to breed?

This isn't aimed at the established breeders I see on this site (but I do welcome your feedback). I'm more putting this question on those who haven't started breeding but are seriously considering it. Breeding is something that is very accepted in this community, I see. I cant go to a reptile show without having most of the vendors asking me what I have and suggest what snake can breed nicely with it. When I tell them that my 2 BPs are just pets, I honestly think many see dollar signs fly out the window since they know I'm not likely going to pay $1000+ for the snake they are offering.

Why breed? I'm thinking many may consider this a great stay-at-home job where you can make $300+ per "product" and not concern yourself with a 9 to 5. There are a ton of absolutely gorgeous morphs out there that will likely take you years to breed but by the time you catch up to breed that expensive, unusual morph, its now more common or oversold that you anticipated and now there is a new morph for you to catch up to.

To truly get to the core of why I'm posting this, I genuinely often wonder what new breeders (maybe even experienced breeders) do with the snake they CANT sell. Do they drastically drop the price just to break even? Put them into the breeding circulation when they are old enough in the hopes of getting a bigger batch next time? Do you have the clientele that will likely buy the snakes you plan on breeding or do you plan to wing it in the hopes you can get by and eventually make it as a breeder?

And yes, I pretty much am venting/ranting here but its all in the hopes that it'll raise some iota of thought or reconsideration to someone looking to start breeding. Are you really doing a service to the animal you so love or to the reptile community as a whole? Just saying really consider what you are getting yourself and the animals into before jumping on that boat. Thanks for reading.

[kylearmbar]

In order to really answer this question if YOU should breed, we need to know why, are you willing to spend hour and hours reading all the information you can find about ball pythons and breeding, and if you can afford it. I only ever plan to make a handful of clutches, and this is mainly because I love animals and want to show others how wrong most are about them. I also do it to produce and hand pick my animal. As far as what to do with what you cannot sell, you need to be prepared to house them for as long as ut takes. You can mitigate this by expanding where u sell, try to become a certified fed ex to expand who can purchase from you.

[satomi325]

For me, it's not about money.
It's a passionate hobby that I find absolutely fascinating and rewarding. I only breed select animals per year. My operation isn't some sort of hatchling factory. I have no intention of turning this into a professional career, nor do I really expect to make any profit ever. I have invested a lot of money into my animals and their care. Any money made from selling snakes goes right back into their care and the hobby. My long term goal is to make it so it is a self sufficient hobby. I'm not quite at that point yet. For now, I'd love to break even.

The initial reason for breeding was so I could hold back my favorite morph combos that were too expensive for me to buy in the first place. I breed what *I* like, not what others prefer. I breed animals that are to my personal tastes. And if there's a chance that I'm stuck with animal, at least it'll be something I like and would appreciate.
Regardless, they are all beautiful animals and the genetics is astounding.
As a biologist, its seriously like taking out a page of a Mendelian inheritance text book. Absolutely amazing.

As for selling snakes. Here's a tip. Buy quality animals and you'll generally have quality babies. A high quality animal is easier to sell than a lower quality one. (Example, a bright yellow pastel vs a brown muddy pastel). Not to mention, breeding a lower quality animal does the gene pool no service anyway.
I've kept snakes up for sale for months. Someone eventually buys them.
I may drop the price a little bit eventually, but that price drop is still within reason. Market price changes annually.
As a breeder, you have to be prepared to keep and care for everything you hatch if nobody buys them. (this is where the breed what *you* like comes in)
And with future parings, I do have friends that I have plans trading babies with and there are people who have expressed interest in some of my pairings.

[Tarzan152]

Thanks for chiming in. I appreciate your input. There are so many questions one must ask themselves before breeding any animal if they truly care for the business and the animal alike. As you can probably tell, my post was more of a vent/rant than anything else. I was just thinking of the many BP owners that are likely persuaded to breed with the allure of working part time or full time from home and good money for each snake they sell. I have friends who have pit bulls and immediately talk about breeding them without the first thought of legalities, licenses, proper care for puppies and such.

I honestly think you guys gave good examples of the proper approach to breeding and planning out the new business. As for me, I love my 2 BPs and look to expand my collection as soon as I have room for them but have absolutely no plans to breed. That's my contribution (or lack there of) to the reptile community.

Thanks again..

[MonkeyShuttle]

I can afford it and i have the free time but i will always do it as a hobby because i dont want caring for these guys to feel like work. And if you like animals and babies, its gonna be really hard not to breed lol. Bottom line... everybody loves babies!

[Pythonfriend]

right now im not active, i need to move to a different place first, before i can keep snakes, but then i will try to breed.


the thing is, back when i was a child, i had a nice aquarium. and over the years, you buy pretty fish, they then get old and die, and you buy more. and for me, there is a disconnect here: you love your pets, but you are a consumer of pets, and if you dont take care to limit yourself to locally bred ones, you even end up putting pressure on the wild population.

so, no matter what species it is, breeding is a way to reduce your footprint to zero. you give more animals back into the market than you take from the market. its not that important for cats and dogs, because all of them are bred in captivity, and buying them wont put any pressure on wolves or servals or other wild cats.

but in reptiles and exotic fish, there still is plenty of wild-caught and poached animals on the market. now you are able to keep these animals without putting pressure on wild populations only because there are breeders that produce them in captivity. and if you breed, you enable others to do the same. also, if ball pythons, corn snakes, texas rat snakes, boa constrictors, western hognose, and reticulated pythons are all rather cheap and all available in a multitude of cool pattern and color variations, it will make rare wild-caught snakes much harder to sell. so even if the number of species that are bred is limited, all species of snakes benefit to a degree.

i dont think im the only one, Brian from BHB said something similar in an interview. one reason why he breeds is to provide consumers with alternatives, and to put pressure on the market in order to keep wild reptiles safe from poaching. yes he really said that, he wants to put pressure on the market and lower the market prices for quality captive-bred animals.


and then, of course, its fun to help create something beautiful, and then there are the awesome morphs that can be combined and refined by breeding.


if you can make money with it, even better. but there are enough reasons to do it as a hobby as well.

[PitOnTheProwl]

In simple, I have genes to make what I cannot afford but still want.
All the stress and headaches of the year are washed away when you see your little ones pip from their little white round house. LoL
Its all about having the space to keep and care for what hatches out too.

My question to yours post is more along the lines of:
Why is it so hard for people to do more research on their own before asking for a quick answer?

(this is not meant for anyone person but more for those that have not planned anything ahead of time)

[Tarzan152]

My genuine main point for this post was the care and respect for the animal (BP or otherwise) that we all love. PitOnTheProwl made a point by saying why not do more research instead of seeking a simple answer? And that's along the lines of what I'm referring to. If breeding is what you truly want to do, I'm suggesting not becoming a breeder off your first snake. Do massive research (of which I do understand asking questions is somewhat part of the research), work for a breeder for a while to get the hang of the ups and the downs, know the business, explore what is to be done to the surplus of babies you have that didn't sell.

I respectfully disagree with MonkeyShuttle's comment of "Everyone loves babies". Well, I don't disagree with the statement because we all do love babies but I disagree with that being a main reason to start breeding. There has to be more of a reason to it than that to start reproducing an animal that... that basically isn't endangered.

Im not trying to give off the vibe that a breeding business is bad. Just trying to put out that it should be approached with the overall care of the animal in mind. I cringe every
time I go to a reptile show and see a large box of normal, baby BPs being sold for $20 each that can easily be haggled down to $15 or $10 just so the breeder doesn't have to take it back home. An inexperienced owner is much more likely to buy one of these to "see how it goes" than to buy a $300+ snake and do the same.

[kikkimea]

We simply do it because we love the animals and it's more for the artistic side of it. It seems amazing to care for those little things, the father in me can't wait!
It's out first season, and aside from the chance for reduced Lesser Bees and Albino Spiders, all our females are normals that we bought as pets.
We keep our snakes at home and have to adjust the collection size thereafter, but i'd like a skyscraper full of them
This will never be about the money, that's just a bonus to maintain or upgrade the collection and be able to produce even more awesome snakes.

I do however envy those that get to do this for a living, even though it may take away part of the personal relationship when you have thousands of snakes..
/Amea

[Marrissa]

If I was in this hobby so I wouldn't have to work a nine to five, let me tell you I need to quit already. I'm already several thousands in the hole with no way out for years.

I don't take breeding lightly. I have all my future pairings planned. And while some may look at my signature and think they know what male I'll use, I'll never use him for breeding. That was my first snake. the males I'll be starting with will be a three gene combo and the other a two gene (with one gene being recessive). I purchase all morph snakes in order to get better combos/certain morphs I'm after. And I look for quality of the animal. In my first breeding season one of my combos will result in about a 7k snake if the 1/4 odds are in my favor (at current value). The others would fetch a pretty penny too. But I'm not chasing them because it's a more expensive combo, I chase them because they are some of my dream combos. That is why I want to breed. I'm an artist and this is another way of art for me. It's painting with combos and trying to make the ultimate snake with that right combo of genes to really pop. It's those cool and unusual combos that look different and gorgeous enough to even make non snake people notice and say "Wow that's pretty!".

And honestly anytime someone asks the question of "Should I breed?" in my head I'm always thinking if you have to ask random people on the internet that question, the answer should be no.

Before I start breeding I will have my hatchling and juvi racks built, along with another adult rack. I will have enough rack spots to hold onto babies for a while before they sell. I have no rose colored glasses on thinking all my babies are going to fly out of the racks as soon as their born. But I know quality sells and I will eventually have a buyer because I'm choosy about my stock. I also breed my own rats and will have a steady and less expensive food supply to feed all those extra mouths without issue. I go into this prepared is my point. I think you seem to think most people dive into breeding blind just to make pretty babies. A lot of us are selective of the morphs we buy for better quality, spend years before actually breeding just researching, and know what it takes to actually make it a successful HOBBY, not business. You don't see very many on here claiming this is/will be their job. It's a hobby for most of us. My goal is to eventually break even with this hobby, and the ultimate goal I have is to make a bit of money with it. But of course the main goal is to chase my dream combos and have a lot of fun doing it.