2 Q's for those using cages for their BPs

[artgecko]

Hello folks,

I'm back again with a couple more questions.
I'm looking into getting some BPs within the year and have been looking at racks, etc. I was talking with my non-herper husband about getting a rack and how they are more economical to house the BPs, take up less space, easier to clean, etc. I did not expect his response, which was that he thought racks would only be for "keeping lots of snakes to breed" and that "you wouldn't be able to see their natural behaviors" like you can in a tank setup. Now, granted we don't keep BPs yet (KSBs, hognose, and soon a BCA), so I wasn't sure what to say to his response. I KNOW for a fact that he will not enjoy the higher cost of housing BPs in cages vs. a rack.

All that said, I'm trying to keep my husband somewhat interested in my snake hobby and he does enjoy watching our current snakes in their (crummy) glass tank enclosures, so I've got a couple questions for those of you that do use cages for your BPs.

1. Do you think that you can observe a lot of natural behavior in a cage, more so than in a rack, or is the BP inactive 95% of the time (i.e. it doesn't make a difference)?

2. What size / sizes of cages do you use for your BPs and what do you think the most economical type / size of caging would be? (I'm planning on keeping about 3 female BPs to start, then adding a male or two down the road.. Breeding will be many years from now)

If you have any arguments that might help sway my husband to thinking a rack is actually better (i.e. for the animals) that would be great too.

Thanks for your time and help!

[Inarikins]

A happy BP is a hiding BP. If your ball python has the right setup, they'll be hiding all day and you'll see them only roam at night. Because of that, there's not really a lot of "natural behavior" to observe, unless you're awake all night. The most economical, as far as keeping a lot of snakes for not a lot of cost for caging or size, a rack is the way to go. To get terrariums (I don't recommend glass tanks, they're difficult to keep properly, you usually have to sacrifice either heat or humidity) enough for at least 4 snakes, you would need a minimum of 2 Animal Plastics T8s divided into two (or something of a smilar size). At $150 each just for the cage itself, under cage heating, a radiant heat panel on each side (for ambient temps), regular lighting if you want to see inside (optional), as well as thermostats that could handle two heat sources, like a Herpstat 2 (would need two of these) or a Herpstat 4 (could handle both cages). You'd be looking at ~$500 a cage, not including any costs for hides, bedding, any decorations if you would like. The upside of all that cost, is that with that size of a cage, you can keep a BP from hatchling up to adult. Unless you end up with a really huge female (4000+ grams) you can keep a snake in one-half of a T8 all its life. To give each snake its own cage the price would scale up, of course. And if you get two males, you would need a third cage along the line.

Compare it to a rack: Something like this would hold your 3 girls all their life (you would have to clutter it up for when they're babies) and you would just have to buy another rack for your males later. With that, you're looking at $300 for the rack itself, and $110-$115 for a Herpstat intro+ (the bare minimum, I would not recommend a Herpstat basic) or a Herpstat 1. So for terrariums you'd be looking at $1000 at a minimum and for a rack you're seeing ~$450 plus an upgrade later if you get more snakes. The thing about a rack though, is that you have to keep the ambients in the room up, so if your house is cold, you will probably have to run a space heater which can run up the heating bill.

I use racks exclusively. I have never kept a BP in a terrarium or tank. I have one snake (she's actually my father's) who I would love to set up in a T8 once I get the money. She is a big snake that can't be bred (well she could, but it would pose serious health risks for her) and my dad loves her. She's just fine in a rack, but because she's his and just a pet, she's the only one I would think about setting up a big decorated enclosure for and keep her as a "display" animal, insofar as a BP can be a display animal.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

[QUOTE=artgecko;2227987]

1. Do you think that you can observe a lot of natural behavior in a cage, more so than in a rack, or is the BP inactive 95% of the time (i.e. it doesn't make a difference)?

What you will observe is your snake hidden in his hide all day, BP make poor display snakes. Now if you stay up all night you will get to see him and out of it's hide but keep in mind that BP spend 80% of their time hiding.

2. What size / sizes of cages do you use for your BPs and what do you think the most economical type / size of caging would be? (I'm planning on keeping about 3 female BPs to start, then adding a male or two down the road.. Breeding will be many years from now)

For an adult 3 x 2 and the lowest height you will find will be 12 inches.

[StaticLowLife]

i will second and third whats already been said, day time observation is almost pointless, but if your awake at night there really cool snakes to watch. mine at least is extremely active at night.

ill probably get some heat for saying this, but my girl is just under 6 feet. i have her in a 55gal tank. now the only reason she's in there is because thats what she's used to. and thats what i got her in. the temp and humidity has been a pita to maintain. but was finally able to get it with a mixture of heat tape two heat lamps (one Red and one ceramic.) and then the coconut substrate. i mist the cage down once in the morning and once when i get home. the humidity stays between 52-58 percent.

[RissaEst]

This set up is about $700. Two cages, a divider, two heat tapes, 4 light fixtures and a thermostat. I love the way they look and I get to see tons of awesome behavior. Drinking, climbing, yawning, soaking/swimming, exploring, etc. They do sleep most of the day but come out just before the lights go out. It's fun to watch and my big old girl will come to the door and ask to be let out!



Edit:
She loves coming out to say hello!




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[artgecko]

Thanks for your input guys!

I know that racks are far cheaper and easier to maintain in the long run, but thanks inarikins for your rundown of the costs... This might help sway my husband. I may setup one BP in a cage (for him to observe), then house the rest in a rack. Once my husband sees that they don't really cruise all that much he might be cool with housing more in tubs.

I will probably end up raising the temps in my reptile room. We will be moving this year and I'm hoping to get a dedicated herp room. If I do, I can get a heater and use that to keep the room a stable temp.

Thanks again everyone for your feedback, specs, and costs you listed.

[artgecko]

RissaEst- That is one nice setup you have! I love that your snake will just crawl out for you too. If money was not an option I'd definitely setup all of my snakes in cages, I'm just not sure how practical it will be if I intend to have 6-10 in the long run.

I will be getting a boa soon and setting up a cage for him, so it will be interesting to see just how much his setup ends up running me. That may sway my husband's opinion on the matter as well.

[RissaEst]

RissaEst- That is one nice setup you have! I love that your snake will just crawl out for you too. If money was not an option I'd definitely setup all of my snakes in cages, I'm just not sure how practical it will be if I intend to have 6-10 in the long run.

I will be getting a boa soon and setting up a cage for him, so it will be interesting to see just how much his setup ends up running me. That may sway my husband's opinion on the matter as well.

This houses three. It could house 4 but my big girl likes her space if you save up as you go it won't be a problem. That's what I did. The top cage is about $300 after shipping, with a divider, two lights and heat tape. Its totally worth the investment! If you breed I would keep babies in a rack and your adults in cages.

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[artgecko]

Thanks for the input. I will definitely keep that in mind! I will have to buy a cage for my boa, so may also buy a cage to split like this to house BPs at the same time.

[GoingPostal]

I have a pvc display cage for my bp and another one ordered to house my other snakes. For me, my reptiles are pet only, I don't like the look of racks, I like to be able to see into cages easily, hate fish tanks due to weight and heating issues. I also keep a very limited collection with few plans to expand. If you are looking at breeding or a larger amount of snakes, a tub or rack setup is more economical. My display cages cost $3-400 each. The snakes probably don't care. Generally the ball python is hanging out in a hide, I see him out drinking, cruising the tank at night or peeking his head out if hungry but he's not a display animal or fun to watch 95% of the time. My cages are 3 x 2, my bp is a 4 foot male but there is more than enough room for a larger snake.