Looking for input on cage design

[Spektyr]

I'm in the process of building a larger enclosure for my female BP (about 5') and I'm going slow and making sure I'm certain of each step before I jump to the next. Currently I have 5 sides cut and 4 assembled (bottom, back, and sides) with 48"x18"x18" as my dimensions, built from 3/4" melamine. To this I'll be adding some one-by across the bottom front as a litter dam and mount point for a swing down door made by the same one-by framed to hold probably two pieces of plexiglass.

Heat is planned to be provided by 11" flexwatt in the 18-24" length range. I've had people I don't believe know what they're doing say that mounting it to the underside of 3/4" melamine will be fine, and someone I have greater faith in say that the melamine is too thick for enough heat to get through reliably. That person suggested putting it inside with a thin piece of plywood or material like the pegboard without the holes on top of it. I've read elsewhere that sandwiching the flexwatt can cause heat problems but if it's on a dimmer I'm not sure that's true.

My plan with the regulation is to put it on a dimmer switch set to provide a belly heat basking area of 90F and combine that with a simple on/off thermostat set at 91F as a security measure.

Originally I'd thought to put it under some vinyl adhesive tile but it was pointed out that if it got too hot it could give off noxious fumes.


I'm also going to use a small light to illuminate the cage to make it easier to see into and allow for better day/night regulation. I work nights and the cage location is in the basement so there's some weak ambient light that's difficult to properly regulate, and then I of course turn on the lights when I'm down there at night so I don't run into things and curse fluently. A simple curtain to shade the door combined with a light timer will allow me to set the light cycle regardless of what me or the sun want to do. Obviously that's not very important unless I want to breed her, and that's down the road a little, but it's easier to build capabilities in to start with rather than modify to add them later. I'll use a DPDT switch to let me run the lights off the timer, force off, or force on. (I could do that from the timer as well, but I don't want to mount it where it's that easy to reach.)


Basically I'm looking for ideas/opinions on how best to implement heating, and whether it matters at all what kind of lighting I use. Is there a particular spectrum that will help reinforce the day/night cues or should I just shop based on price and ease of mounting where I want it?

Also, I've used the green "carpet" stuff that is like a really heavy felt - I don't remember what it's called - as a substrate before and if at all possible I'd like to do something like that again. It's really nice to be able to just roll it up, mess and all, and drop an extra one in and clean the cage like that, then clean the previous mat later on at my convenience. Anyone know where I could find that stuff in large sizes? It's like halfway between felt and a green "scratch pad" cleaner.

[jclaiborne]

-For simple lighting I use a 13in LED bar that I got from Lowes, easy to mount, low energy consumption and lights up the cages nicely.

-For heating, some of my buddies that use Melamine (I do not) have cut an area out of the bottom where they wanted the heat pad to go and put in a piece of PVC sheet or plexi that is thinner and they put the pad under that so it will heat through.

-For bedding I am not a fan of that felt/carpet, it can hold too much bacteria and it doesn't allow your snake to burrow.

[Spektyr]

I'm not really concerned with bacteria, they won't survive the cleaning process (piping hot water, detergent, scrubbing, and thorough rinsing). There is MUCH less capacity for bacteria to grow when you replace ALL the bedding with fresh-clean bedding every week or two and clean the whole cage at the same time when compared to the spot cleaning usually done with other kinds of bedding. I've done both and even when I (try to) completely replace all the loose bedding material it's a major undertaking to try to get it all out. That dusty crud that always ends up in the corners is a huge PITA and undoubtedly can harbor bacteria.

Those loose bedding options usually look better, but that's their appeal in my book. If I want the cage to be clean, I'd rather use newspaper than that. IMHO, hides are sufficient for meeting the "burrowing" need in a ball python.


What you're describing for the heating: you're talking about cutting a hole all the way through in the basic size/shape of the flexwatt and then covering it with a thinner material with the heating underneath, right? I hadn't thought of that. It would give me an excuse to buy a new reciprocating saw... I get to buy tools if I can prove I need them for something (and they don't take up enough room to annoy the wife when not in use.)

[jclaiborne]

For the heating yes that's what I was talking about. I don't use melamine, but I have seen friends do it to their cages. New tools always equals a good day! My wife is ok with new tools as long at it is for a project that she wants done haha.

[PitOnTheProwl]

I used 3/8 glass on the bottom.
You could also put the flex a watt inside and cut down some 18" ceramic tiles to cover the floor. Getting them out for clewning might be a pain though.

[patientz3ro]

I used 3/8 glass on the bottom.
You could also put the flex a watt inside and cut down some 18" ceramic tiles to cover the floor. Getting them out for clewning might be a pain though.

I second the glass idea. Tiles would be a pain, and they're only glazed on the surface. You could tile and grout the bottom, but you're going to have to seal the grout or it's going to be a nasty situation pretty quickly.

Also, I'd skip the dimmer and just get a decent thermostat. Why get two things that could potentially crash when one is a more efficient method to begin with?

Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Tapatalk

[Spektyr]

Also, I'd skip the dimmer and just get a decent thermostat. Why get two things that could potentially crash when one is a more efficient method to begin with?

Two reasons:
1. Cost
2. The actual physics of a potential failure favor two redundant systems over one.

In order for your suggestion, that two things that could break being worse than one thing that could break you'd have to be suggesting that either both of those things are so incredibly likely to fail that the odds of both failing within the same time span exceeds the odds of a progressive thermostat failing, or you're suggesting that progressive thermostats can't fail.

How many household dimmer switches are in operation, and what is the average time to failure on them? I don't have a clue, I've never witnessed nor heard of one failing. Since the thermostat will be there to "catch" the dimmer if it runs the heating tape too hot the only way the tape actually gets too hot is if both fail AND the dimmer fails in a lower resistance (rather than the infinitely more likely open.)

So for $40 I can have temperature controls that do the job and provide backup in case of a single point of failure. Or for a $100+ I can have a fancier thermostat that, if it breaks, has no backup and costs more than triple the replacement cost of any single component of the other option.

I like the idea of the proportional thermostat better, but the expense is significantly higher for not a lot of actual improvement. It's not like I can stop checking temperatures simply because I have a nicer thermostat - everything can fail, thus I must continue to make sure the temps are correct.

[patientz3ro]

Two reasons:
1. Cost
2. The actual physics of a potential failure favor two redundant systems over one.

In order for your suggestion, that two things that could break being worse than one thing that could break you'd have to be suggesting that either both of those things are so incredibly likely to fail that the odds of both failing within the same time span exceeds the odds of a progressive thermostat failing, or you're suggesting that progressive thermostats can't fail.

How many household dimmer switches are in operation, and what is the average time to failure on them? I don't have a clue, I've never witnessed nor heard of one failing. Since the thermostat will be there to "catch" the dimmer if it runs the heating tape too hot the only way the tape actually gets too hot is if both fail AND the dimmer fails in a lower resistance (rather than the infinitely more likely open.)

So for $40 I can have temperature controls that do the job and provide backup in case of a single point of failure. Or for a $100+ I can have a fancier thermostat that, if it breaks, has no backup and costs more than triple the replacement cost of any single component of the other option.

I like the idea of the proportional thermostat better, but the expense is significantly higher for not a lot of actual improvement. It's not like I can stop checking temperatures simply because I have a nicer thermostat - everything can fail, thus I must continue to make sure the temps are correct.

That's one way to look at it, and I understand where you're coming from. I prefer to have back ups for critical components of my setup as well. The problem I see with the system you're planning is that you now have two potential failure points, rather than one. I'm not suggesting that thermostats never fail. On the contrary, while I've never had one of MINE fail, I know it's only a matter of time. What I'm saying is that a cheaply made T-stat that you can get for under $40 will be MORE likely to fail than a better quality one. On top of that, dimmers are extremely inaccurate. You can leave a dimmer at the exact same spot in its range for days, and you'll never get the same temp reading twice in a row. Depending on the type, they're also a little wonky about where they apply power within their range. I've seen dimmers that will indicate being on as soon as you move the control, but won't apply enough current to power whatever they're plugged into unless they're halfway through the dimming range. Just too much of a pain.

Ultimately, my point is this; you're obviously putting a lot of thought, time, effort, and expense into this project. That's awesome. I just think you're better served by putting a higher quality thermostat into the design. You'll only have one "weak" point in the system, and the higher quality will mean it's less likely to fail.

Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Tapatalk

[Spektyr]

That makes sense, and I'm building it with forward compatibility in mind, but to stay on budget I have to make some decisions on where to put the money. And it's much easier to buy an expensive thermostat six months from now and not have the wife mentally add that to the complete cost of the cage. She's good about not considering the jigsaw I bought because of this project to be part of the expense of the project, but then again I'm usually pretty quick to find another thing to use each tool for after the first project is complete to "help" her dissociate the tool from the project.

I'm currently about $80 bucks in on materials, another 60ish in electrical and I haven't gotten a light or even started the electrical box to keep things neatly organized. I also still need some hardware (hinges, vents, etc) and plexiglass. I'm under budget by a reasonable margin, but not enough to upgrade the thermostat and since we're dealing with a member of the fairer sex, I can keep her much happier with a small splurge on something like FastCap's edge tape for the melamine than I can with a temperature controller that, by design, should never require much interaction.

If it were up to me, I'd eat a hell of a lot more ramen and have a lot more pets (and other toys) people like to try to ban, but the wife is always making me spend money on things like "real food" and "furniture that isn't ugly". She's into shooting and seems to be getting more and more interested in snakes, but she's still not letting me throw all my money at our hobbies. Especially now that she's green-lit the larger "luxury" cage and a future "boyfriend", I don't want her to think this is yet another expensive hobby. At least not until we have some adorable baby snakes for her to fawn over. "You know honey, we could keep some of them. I'd just need to build a little rack for the corner..."

[patientz3ro]

That makes sense, and I'm building it with forward compatibility in mind, but to stay on budget I have to make some decisions on where to put the money. And it's much easier to buy an expensive thermostat six months from now and not have the wife mentally add that to the complete cost of the cage. She's good about not considering the jigsaw I bought because of this project to be part of the expense of the project, but then again I'm usually pretty quick to find another thing to use each tool for after the first project is complete to "help" her dissociate the tool from the project.

I'm currently about $80 bucks in on materials, another 60ish in electrical and I haven't gotten a light or even started the electrical box to keep things neatly organized. I also still need some hardware (hinges, vents, etc) and plexiglass. I'm under budget by a reasonable margin, but not enough to upgrade the thermostat and since we're dealing with a member of the fairer sex, I can keep her much happier with a small splurge on something like FastCap's edge tape for the melamine than I can with a temperature controller that, by design, should never require much interaction.

If it were up to me, I'd eat a hell of a lot more ramen and have a lot more pets (and other toys) people like to try to ban, but the wife is always making me spend money on things like "real food" and "furniture that isn't ugly". She's into shooting and seems to be getting more and more interested in snakes, but she's still not letting me throw all my money at our hobbies. Especially now that she's green-lit the larger "luxury" cage and a future "boyfriend", I don't want her to think this is yet another expensive hobby. At least not until we have some adorable baby snakes for her to fawn over. "You know honey, we could keep some of them. I'd just need to build a little rack for the corner..."

I had a feeling there was a feminine factor! One thing I would suggest is that when you're ready to upgrade your environmental control, look into the Herpkeeper system from Digital Aquatics. I'm currently using a VE100 for belly heat, and a ZooMed HygroTherm for air temps and humidity. I've also got daylight bulbs on a timer. It works extremely well, but the DA unit looks like it will do all of those in a single unit, and at a lower price. I may end up switching myself, I'm still researching.

Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Tapatalk