New Three Gene Male!

[Freakie_frog]

I have a question. There is genetic variability in every morph. There are super reduced pastels and some super busy ones. There are some super bright ones and ones that are barely distinguishable from normals.

Why can't the granite thing just be genetic variability?

Seems as tho recently all those differences that are seen are "genes". I feel like people are grasping at straws for the next huge morph and all these subtle differences get labeled as genes. I feel like that's what the granite thing is with the hgw stuff. Just genetic variability. With that in mind, I don't have any in my collection so this isn't from first hand experience. It's just from talking to some people and reading forums and what not. I'm happy to be proven wrong but as it stands, hgw granites are just busy hgw in my book.

While I can agree that it seems every-time you turn around someone has some new "thing-a-ma-jig" the Granite thing has been around for year's. I've been in Ball pythons since the early 2000's and can remember hearing about Amir's "Ebony" that was made with some "granite" stuff. To me the granite is more of a way to describe and aberrant trait that seems to pass on to the off spring. I have a Granite Pinstripe that it totally different in color and patten than any other pin I own or have hatched. In the end it seems to be these slight differences that are turning out some neat stuff. Look at the Blade or tangerine stuff that RDR is doing.

I like Tim will likely drop the granite thing as it doesn't seem to add that much to the over all look of the animal. But to say that its not a thing is simply know true becase it does change the animal's look even if its just slightly.

[brock lesser]

Question: Since wobp lists granite as a gene in the soul sucker, if a hgw doesn't have the granite gene,
will he produce a soul sucker when breading to a lesser?

[Freakie_frog]

Question: Since wobp lists granite as a gene in the soul sucker, if a hgw doesn't have the granite gene,
will he produce a soul sucker when breading to a lesser?

I'll let Tim verify this since he has hands on experience with the HGW but my feeling would be yes.

[Pythonfriend]

Question: Since wobp lists granite as a gene in the soul sucker, if a hgw doesn't have the granite gene,
will he produce a soul sucker when breading to a lesser?

what the heck, WOBP added granite (dom) or granite (codom) not only to soulsucker, but to all soulsucker combos.

mistakes are common on WOBP, but this is ridiculous. its HGW + lesser, thats how i remember it, and im positive thats how it used to be on WOBP as well. i wonder what the person adding granite to all these soulsucker combos was thinking when he did it. but then, i also wonder what they were thinking when they took the advanced search away from us before they got the tags done properly. a search for lesser or hidden gene woma will yield no soulsuckers as search results.

that someone or something is driving WOBP into the ground from the inside would be less frustrating if the website would not be used by so many people (including me) to look things up.

[iCandiBallPythons]

Very nice addition brother

[koloo921]

Nice pick up

[snake-zone.dk]

what the heck, WOBP added granite (dom) or granite (codom) not only to soulsucker, but to all soulsucker combos.

mistakes are common on WOBP, but this is ridiculous. its HGW + lesser, thats how i remember it, and im positive thats how it used to be on WOBP as well. i wonder what the person adding granite to all these soulsucker combos was thinking when he did it. but then, i also wonder what they were thinking when they took the advanced search away from us before they got the tags done properly. a search for lesser or hidden gene woma will yield no soulsuckers as search results.

that someone or something is driving WOBP into the ground from the inside would be less frustrating if the website would not be used by so many people (including me) to look things up.

Well If you take a look in some of Kevins videos he says that when you breed the HGW to Granite you can't separate them again..
and when i talk to Kevin about it like 2 years ago we decided to chance all the HGW stuff and added Granite in it..
this is not new...

and here in 2013 he made the super granite thats why they was chance from Granite Dom to Granite Co-dom..
its possible that i have missed some and you are welcome to send us a mail if you find some mistakes on the site.. instead of just talk about how bad the site is on some other forum...

every body are welcome to help making this a better site..

[muddoc]

I have a question. There is genetic variability in every morph. There are super reduced pastels and some super busy ones. There are some super bright ones and ones that are barely distinguishable from normals.

Why can't the granite thing just be genetic variability?

Seems as tho recently all those differences that are seen are "genes". I feel like people are grasping at straws for the next huge morph and all these subtle differences get labeled as genes. I feel like that's what the granite thing is with the hgw stuff. Just genetic variability. With that in mind, I don't have any in my collection so this isn't from first hand experience. It's just from talking to some people and reading forums and what not. I'm happy to be proven wrong but as it stands, hgw granites are just busy hgw in my book.

It could be variability. However, in my opinion, I doubt it is. I do believe there is something else at work here. Just because it is not fully understood, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I haven't spoken to Kevin to know how much effort he pout into understanding the Granite portion, but I can say that I have a few projects (read new stuff) that I have been working on for many years. At times, I get frudtrated with them because it has been so long, and I can imagine that Kevin may have even got fed up a bit, and is letting somebody else figure it out. Too often people forget that many things in regards to how a new gene may work is not something that is completely understood in one breeding season, or even 3 years. Sometimes it can take many years to figure out all of the pieces. Just because something has been around for 5 or six years doesn't mean that we should know everything about it.

Question: Since wobp lists granite as a gene in the soul sucker, if a hgw doesn't have the granite gene,
will he produce a soul sucker when breading to a lesser?

I have not worked with the gene, and done enough breedings to say anything with certainty, but I can say that when Kevin first made an Inferno, he believed that the Granite gene was part of it, because it was in there. The same goes for Soul Suckers. With that said, as well as what I wrote above, I don't know that it has been proven if the Granite is variability or a genetic trait on it's own. With that said, I have not tried to breed one of my HgWomas that I believe is lacking the Granite gene (which this is the first year I have produced that look). However, it is my belief that if you truly had a HgW without the Granite gene, you could indeed make Infernos and Soul Suckers, and any of the other combos that have been being produced.

My .02 only,

[dgring]

really cool

[MrLang]

I don't want to derail too much but since we've opened up the Granite discussion - I got a male bumble bee with the broken spot behind the head, flecking, clear belly, flecking like YB along the sides of the clear belly a few years ago from a breeder down the street from NERD where all of his stock came from Kevin originally. He has granite animals 'mixed in' with the rest and ID'd some of my babies as being pastel granites from the bee male. When you put them side by side it looks pretty obvious. Curious on thoughts on these 3:





My thoughts are #1 is a pastel granite, #2 is questionable (funky pattern, flecking, spot behind head) #3 is just a pastel - I only added #3 to show the variability in the clutch.

Thoughts?