BP's eat and grow more than we thought?

[STjepkes]

Ya they will.
Just like a person eating McDonalds every day will considerably shorten their life-span.
There is a reason captive animal usually live much longer than wild counterparts that does not include predation. We as sentient beings with the tools to study these animals can give them an overall healthier life than they would have in the wild. Things like elimination of parasites, proper nutrition, all the things that go into good husbandry.
There are things we have to do that never happen in the wild. There is no one spot cleaning, changing substrate or filtering and purifying their water.

This is not a new or novel species where we need to try everything and figure out what works. If you are feeding the right size prey every 3 days for the size of snake you have for an extended period you will have a fat snake.

IF you knew anything about raising these animals with their full potential, you'd know that eventually, the snake will stop being interested every 3 days, 4 days, 5 days, as they grow, until they aren't really interested in food more than once a week usually - an exception being putting weight on back on females after eggs.

This second post you made is just downright ignorant.

1. You're claiming that these snakes will literally KILL THEMSELVES by making the choice to over eat? Do you even own a ball python? Show me 1 well documented instance of this, please, show me.

2. Comparing essentially the most natural diet a python could possibly have, with the horror of the "food" they sell at McDonalds is absolutely ludicrous. Do you understand to any degree what homo sapiens are supposed to be eating? McDonald's is not food. Not real food. Human beings were never designed to be eating the things they sell at these restaurants.

[Raven01]

Are you directing this at me? Because if you are you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Seriously, feeding them smaller items more often will literally allow your snake to grow to a healthy size more quickly. No, not just heavy, but literally longer, much faster. Power feeding is force feeding another animal, by putting into their mouth right as the first item is going down. NEVER did I condone doing this, so pay a little more attention to what you're accusing me of here.

I'm sorry that it sound like feeding is some big hassle to you, but that doesn't make feeding frequently wrong. If you think you can over feed ball pythons, I can be almost certain that you aren't speaking from experience, because this does not happen. I have never heard of a ball that voluntarily ate its way to a weigh that was impairing it's health in any way.

What I HAVE seen, many times now, is new people regurgitating information that they do not know to be fact at all, but they preach as law. I have also seen these people greatly underutilized the natural growing capacity of their young balls. If you're intending to breed, and talking about costs, having to wait at least 3-5 years when they have the potential to be there in 1.5-3 years is going to cost you a lot more money that just getting your snakes up to weight in the first place by offering them optimal food from the start. Obviously there are exceptions, though.

Someone is a little over sensitive.
No it wasn't directed at you and if you have seen enough rescues then you would know that BP's can over eat. Not all of them are finicky eaters( I know most of us have one or more snake where this was the issue we had to deal with rather than stubborn feeders).
My snakes are doing quite well at 15% body weight every 5 days until between 400-500 grams, then every 7 days the same 15%. One female attained 1100 grams in one year (granted she is the one that almost never skipped a meal, I'd have to check her feed records but, I believe it was only 2 skipped meals for her over a year). They are proportionally developed and not overweight or underweight.

As I said it CAN be done, but advising new snake keepers with no background in animal physiology to feed every 3 days is a tad irresponsible.
3 days would be more suited to an underweight juvenile as opposed to a healthy juvenile.

[Scirlygirl]

Are you directing this at me? Because if you are you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Seriously, feeding them smaller items more often will literally allow your snake to grow to a healthy size more quickly. No, not just heavy, but literally longer, much faster. Power feeding is force feeding another animal, by putting into their mouth right as the first item is going down. NEVER did I condone doing this, so pay a little more attention to what you're accusing me of here.

I'm sorry that it sound like feeding is some big hassle to you, but that doesn't make feeding frequently wrong. If you think you can over feed ball pythons, I can be almost certain that you aren't speaking from experience, because this does not happen. I have never heard of a ball that voluntarily ate its way to a weigh that was impairing it's health in any way.

What I HAVE seen, many times now, is new people regurgitating information that they do not know to be fact at all, but they preach as law. I have also seen these people greatly underutilized the natural growing capacity of their young balls. If you're intending to breed, and talking about costs, having to wait at least 3-5 years when they have the potential to be there in 1.5-3 years is going to cost you a lot more money that just getting your snakes up to weight in the first place by offering them optimal food from the start. Obviously there are exceptions, though.

Well said! I agree completely. I think people are getting power feeding mixed up with hungry snakes willing to eat often. Here's the thing, if one is not willing to pay money to feed these fast growing babies then thats poor ownership. One can't slap a label on these animals and say they don't need to be fed as often as 3-5 days. Happy you understand!

[STjepkes]

Someone is a little over sensitive.
No it wasn't directed at you and if you have seen enough rescues then you would know that BP's can over eat. Not all of them are finicky eaters( I know most of us have one or more snake where this was the issue we had to deal with rather than stubborn feeders).
My snakes are doing quite well at 15% body weight every 5 days until between 400-500 grams, then every 7 days the same 15%. One female attained 1100 grams in one year (granted she is the one that almost never skipped a meal, I'd have to check her feed records but, I believe it was only 2 skipped meals for her over a year). They are proportionally developed and not overweight or underweight.

As I said it CAN be done, but advising new snake keepers with no background in animal physiology to feed every 3 days is a tad irresponsible.
3 days would be more suited to an underweight juvenile as opposed to a healthy juvenile.

Show me one single instance of this. Seriously.

[Scirlygirl]

Someone is a little over sensitive.
No it wasn't directed at you and if you have seen enough rescues then you would know that BP's can over eat. Not all of them are finicky eaters( I know most of us have one or more snake where this was the issue we had to deal with rather than stubborn feeders).
My snakes are doing quite well at 15% body weight every 5 days until between 400-500 grams, then every 7 days the same 15%. One female attained 1100 grams in one year (granted she is the one that almost never skipped a meal, I'd have to check her feed records but, I believe it was only 2 skipped meals for her over a year). They are proportionally developed and not overweight or underweight.

As I said it CAN be done, but advising new snake keepers with no background in animal physiology to feed every 3 days is a tad irresponsible.
3 days would be more suited to an underweight juvenile as opposed to a healthy juvenile.

Are you calling me irresponsible? I hope you know I am NOT new to keeping snakes or any reptile. I have many many many years under my belt. I AM a breeder. I'm purely saying that whose to say snakes can't eat every 3-5 days. If they are hungry they eat. simple and sweet. I've observed this on my own. I don't tell you how to raise your snakes, please don't tell me how to raise mine. One can't tell a growing baby snake in the wild not to eat often because it might get fat. As I said before, as the snake ages and slows its growth and becomes an adult they don't need/want to eat as often as they did as babies.

[Raven01]

Show me one single instance of this. Seriously.

Are you seriously saying you have never seen an overweight Ball Python? Not even one that wasn't force fed?
How long have you been around these animals again?
Come back to chat when you've done necropsies on animals and noticed larger than normal fat deposits and atypical organs (yes even in BP's although it does seem less frequent with this species than some others) One of the reasons BP's are decent starter snakes is precisely that they seem pretty forgiving of minor bad husbandry practices.
If your BP needs to be fed after 3 days, you are offering undersized prey.

[Neal]

450 gram snake means 45-67.5 gram prey is the ballpark to shoot for for you. The small you have fits in nicely to that range(in a pinch 2 smaller items of the same approx total weight is good too). The increase in size will most likely be appreciated by your snake.
Good luck.
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And, with all due respect anyone telling people to overfeed snakes is just plain wrong. If you feed smaller meals every 3 days sure, you can do it but, why would you?
More small prey items and more frequent feedings will just cost you more in the long run. It doesn't seem to provide any benefit to the animals and, it is easier to over-feed and end up with an obese animal.

There is no such thing as being healthy and overweight for people so, it wouldn't be wise to assume it is any different with other species without scientific evidence to back it up. I do know that some species of snakes develop liver issues if overfed.
Trying different things is all well and good but, power-feeding has been tried and there are reasons why it is not recommended. If you don't mind spending more to get your snakes the same nutrition and spend way more time feeding them(what may have to be prey that is in reality too small for the animal to adequately stretch ligaments and help with proper skull/jaw/soft-tissue development), I suppose you could. You just won't be doing yourself or your snake any favours.

You clearly don't understand the 10-15% rule so don't recommend it. That whole rule was established ONLY for hatchlings and then people come and read it and just auto assume it is for everything. Several conditions can come into play with a snake being older. STOP recommending it if you don't understand it. Again, I'll state it was a rule established FOR HATCHLINGS.

[Neal]

Someone is a little over sensitive.
No it wasn't directed at you and if you have seen enough rescues then you would know that BP's can over eat. Not all of them are finicky eaters( I know most of us have one or more snake where this was the issue we had to deal with rather than stubborn feeders).
My snakes are doing quite well at 15% body weight every 5 days until between 400-500 grams, then every 7 days the same 15%. One female attained 1100 grams in one year (granted she is the one that almost never skipped a meal, I'd have to check her feed records but, I believe it was only 2 skipped meals for her over a year). They are proportionally developed and not overweight or underweight.

As I said it CAN be done, but advising new snake keepers with no background in animal physiology to feed every 3 days is a tad irresponsible.
3 days would be more suited to an underweight juvenile as opposed to a healthy juvenile.

You recommending a rule that you don't understand like the body weight thing is irresponsible. That rule was created for hatchlings to help people determine food size. So unless the snake is a hatchling, stop recommending it.

[Raven01]

Are you calling me irresponsible? I hope you know I am NOT new to keeping snakes or any reptile. I have many many many years under my belt. I AM a breeder.

Please do share what name you use as a breeder.

I'm purely saying that whose to say snakes can't eat every 3-5 days. If they are hungry they eat. simple and sweet. I've observed this on my own.

Where did I say you cannot feed more frequently? The only thing more astonishing that the butthurt here, is the lack of logical ability.
I stated that care needs to be take to not overfeed.

I don't tell you how to raise your snakes, please don't tell me how to raise mine.

And, where did I do that.
I told you, that if your snake needs to be fed every 3 days you are feeding prey that is too small. I stand by that and if you are the experienced breeder you claim to be then, you will have already found this yourself.[QUOTE=freedom21;2194529] One can't tell a growing baby snake in the wild not to eat often because it might get fat. As I said before, as the snake ages and slows its growth and becomes an adult they don't need/want to eat as often as they did as babies.

Which would be a contributing factor to captive animals living longer.
Wild snakes also go extended periods without any food which is why they are so willing to eat at almost any opportunity.

[Neal]

Babies eat more because of the predator law. Things bigger than you are potentially predators, so the bigger they get the better chance they stand of living versus being small and having more predators that can kill them.