How soon can you identify "bad" temperament in young rats?

[artgecko]

Hello folks,
I'm not breeding rats for snake food, but did buy a trio of males to try out as "pets" (I want to know how bad the odor is before considering raising them for my snakes). I've had them for close to a week now and two of the three are very young, about the size of adult mice, with the third being larger (about twice as big).

One of them, the smallest, has been "mouthy" a few times (his first reaction to my hands is to "test" with his teeth). i thought I'd made progress with him, but tonight when I was trying to hold him (this was a new activity for him), he bit me... not hard enough to draw blood, but hard enough to hurt (like he was saying "put me down now!"). The other two have mouthed softly a few times but not on a regular basis like this guy and have never bitten hard.

I plan on giving him another week to see if he calms down before deciding on what I'll do, but I wanted to get everyone's opinion because you guys have raised a lot of rats and have a better handle on telling one with bad temperament from one that is showing normal behavior. I don't relish the thought of killing the little guy, but if he's most likely going to grow up to be a biting adult rat, I don't want to deal with that either.

If you have any advice, etc, I'd be glad to hear it because I have absolutely no experience with rats and I don't want to make a decision I'll regret due to my inexperience.

Thanks for your time and help!
Artgecko

[angllady2]

All rats will do this at least once or twice. And the biggest mistake people make is to put the biter down because they got startled. It only take re-inforcing that behavior once and you have a devil of a time getting rid of it. Rats have great memory, and they remember biting = left alone.

Your best bet now is to increase his holding sessions. Let him bite you a few times, but NEVER put him down right after a bite, even if you are bleeding. For a particularly stubborn rattie who insists on getting his way by biting, scruff him. Just like mamma did. He'll kick and squeal and twist like he's dying or going to eat you alive. Just call his bluff. Don't hurt him, don't shake him, just scruff him and hold him up to look at you and tell him no. Like you would a dog. "Bad rattie! Don't you bite me!" Hold him for a minute or two then let him down. Most likely he'll fight you a few times, and you'll think there is no way this is ever going to work, then suddenly he'll just quit.

As for the others, when they do the mouthy thing, squeal at them. "Owwie!" make it as high pitched as you possibly can. Startle them just a bit. They are just testing things out, and most rats are not aggressive nor do they enjoy hurting people. If you let them know right away the mouthy thing is bad, they will likely stop right quick. My daughter uses this trick all the time, and she's yet to have one that didn't stop the mouthing when she did this.

The one thing you do need to watch out for is treats. Most people, including me, love to give their ratties treats from their fingers. It is just so darn cute to see them grab it and munch away. But be aware, a greedy rattie who sees his favorite treat may sometimes forget what he's grabbing and you may get a little nip once in a while. It doesn't bother me. One of my breeder females is so excited about her treats, that she'll grab my entire hand in her mouth and try to run off with it. She doesn't hurt me, but leaning over a tub trying to maintain your balance while a greedy rat tries it's best to stuff your hand in the corner so they know where the treat is later can be entertaining to say the least.

I wish you all the best. Let me know if this helps you, or if I can offer any other advise. I've been hooked on these guys for years now, and although I don't even come close to knowing everything, I do know some stuff.

Gale

[MrLang]

If you give treats, do it out of your palm and not between your fingers. If they bite you, squeak to let him know you have been hurt.

At the end of the day, I retired any breeders that nipped, are mouthy, snorkel under the bedding when I go near them, etc. The result after a few generations is very positive for me.

My advice, keep him and try the above and see if he calms down. If you start breeding, do not hold back any of his babies. Breed your healthiest and friendliest rats together for holdbacks and use the rest for their intended purpose.

[Archimedes]

x3 on the squeaking. When babies are playing with each other, and one gets too rough, a squeak of pain lets the rough rat know that he hurt his sibling. It translates easily to humans.

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[artgecko]

Thanks so much for your advice guys! I will try the squeaking for small nips and the scruffing for biting. I'm hoping this guy will settle down... One of the three is very friendly and non aggressive... If I do breed, it'll probably be from him (although he is doing some sneezing which is concerning). The third rat is shy, but is coming around with handling and treats.

It'll be challenging if I do decide to breed as there are no stores that sell females in my town... i may have to go a couple towns over to find some, but I'll worry about that when the time comes.

So far I am liking these guys' intelligence a lot (although they've proven quite the little escape artists so far).

Thanks again for your advice!

[shadowsnakes]

Like you I started with three rats - two females and a male. Every one of them sneezes although they have not shown any other sign of illness, and from what I have read this is fairly common behavior from "pet store" stock. It can be caused by low grade infection, dusty bedding, strong smells, etc. Key is to keep a close eye on your rattie and if they get worse, see a vet!

The male and one of the females were both very aggressive when I first got them. I invested in a pair of cut and puncture-resistant gloves (about $17 on Amazon) for handling sessions and made a point to give attention during bin cleanings. Now neither will mouth, nip, or bite. She lets me take babies right out of the bin without making a single aggressive move.

[satomi325]

Mouthing is a normal behavior for rats. It's not a vicious action. It's how they feel the world. It's part of the sense of touch.
They're just checking you out.

The one that bites a little harder probably just doesn't know it's too hard for you. The squealing might help him understand that it hurts and he might start to lighten his touch.

Also note since you're trying them out for the odor, that males smell relatively more than females. They also pee a lot more to territory mark.

[artgecko]

Well guys, it ended up being a moot point. The little guy improved behavior wise (but was never "friendly"). However, he became super skinny...emaciated you could say, I could feel every bone in his body (even the vertebrae in his tail and his leg bones, hips, etc.). He had been skinny when we bought him, but me not knowing anything about rats thought that the small ones would be that way normally.

He was lethargic and breathing with a clicking noise and with each breath his head would "bob". Attempts to get him to gain weight by feeding individually (fatty foods, egg, olive oil with oats, etc.) failed and he started refusing food... So I did one of the hardest things I've ever done (although probably sounds silly to you guys). I euthanized him using CD. This was the first time I had done CD and I wasn't perfect at it. But at least the little guy isn't suffering any more. I now know that if I ever breed feeders for my snakes I will have to use a Co2 chamber. I don't think I could take doing CD multiple times.

After doing more research, I think he might have had megacolon because although he had no fat and extremely little muscle tissue, his stomach was a enlarged. He also did not gain weight like my other small rat purchased at the same time. I'm thinking if it wasn't megacolon it was another genetic condition that kept him from absorbing nutrients.

I was lucky enough to speak to someone who will give me a couple of male rats from a litter for adoption in a few weeks. I'm hoping that they will be healthy, and being used to being handled, will have a good temperament as well.

I have definitely been able to use your advice on my two other guys though. They do the taste / nipping and I will say "no" or make a noise loudly when they do this and tap them on the nose and so far, it seems that they've learned what is and is not acceptable. One of the two has never mouthed or nipped that I can remember, so if I do breed from these guys he may be the male I use.

Thanks again for all of your help!

[Archimedes]

I'm sorry to hear about your little guy, but I am glad he's no longer in pain. As for your progress with the other two, congrats and fantastic work!

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[aldebono]

These are my thoughts from the other thread that I thought would be more relevant here,

As far as temperament, breeding can go a LONG way in improving how your rats act, even if you do not hold them on a daily basis.
I started out with a group of feeder rats who were very afraid, dash to the back of the bin, scream and thrash when you picked them up. Through selective breeding and not tolerating foolishness, in twoish years I ended up with rats who came to the front of the bin to visit, and that I could pick up under the armpits like a kitten without ever a peep.

Have high standards for your rats especially during the beginning. The list of things that I did not tolerate included, aggression towards any bin mate or myself, baby eating, chewing, screaming when picked up.

Sometimes health issues do occur, but because of line breeding, we can pinpoint where the health issue is originating from and eliminate it from the colony.