Rats vs Mice and vitamins

[NYHC4LIFE8899]

I see ppl say to switch right over. I made the switch with one of my two BPs today,the other is stuck still on mice but he's a tiny under fed baby when I got him.but he's eating live fuzzies no problems.

Point is do people say to switch to rats cause there more filling when snakes get bigger and easier than feeding multiple mice? Do Rats have more nutritional value?

are there any all natural vitamins I can give to my snake. I want them to be strong and healthy with strong immune systems,like there Dad..

any tips would be appreciated,
TY

[WmHrbst]

A lot of the nutrition depends on the food given to the rats/mice. Ultimately, what goes into your rodents, goes into your animals.

[shadowsnakes]

Like you, I've seen dozens of people on both sides of the fence rearding mice vs rats. There are some limited studies showing protein differences and growth potential and rats seem to edge out mice.

WmHrbst makes an excellent point! The feeder's nutrition is your snake's nutrition. With that in mind I started a small rat colony (1.2) and feed them Mazuri Rodent Breeder. Litter growth is phenomenal when compared to pet store foods containing seeds and grain, which for me translates to better nutrition for the pups. Since feeding them to my BPs they have become noticably larger versus store bought f/t feeders.

I haven't heard of vitamin supplements for snakes, aside from some water additives to help with egg production. Everything they need should come from the feeders. Practice good husbandry and you will have happy, strong snakes for many years.

[NYHC4LIFE8899]

Like you, I've seen dozens of people on both sides of the fence rearding mice vs rats. There are some limited studies showing protein differences and growth potential and rats seem to edge out mice.

WmHrbst makes an excellent point! The feeder's nutrition is your snake's nutrition. With that in mind I started a small rat colony (1.2) and feed them Mazuri Rodent Breeder. Litter growth is phenomenal when compared to pet store foods containing seeds and grain, which for me translates to better nutrition for the pups. Since feeding them to my BPs they have become noticably larger versus store bought f/t feeders.

I haven't heard of vitamin supplements for snakes, aside from some water additives to help with egg production. Everything they need should come from the feeders. Practice good husbandry and you will have happy, strong snakes for many years.

I'm happy with my husbandry and it seems so are my snakes.

I have heard they are higher in protein,rats that is. My ghost who had his first live rat pup today, took it like it was a FT mouse,so I'm glad he will eat FT and live,mice or rats. My other guy who will only eat live,will only eat mice now. Put a rat in for him today and he layed next to it for 10 mins then slithered away. Went back out bought a mouse and within a few seconds of him seeing it,he struck and choked it out in30 seconds.hope I can switch him over in the future.

[shadowsnakes]

I'm happy with my husbandry and it seems so are my snakes.

I have heard they are higher in protein,rats that is. My ghost who had his first live rat pup today, took it like it was a FT mouse,so I'm glad he will eat FT and live,mice or rats. My other guy who will only eat live,will only eat mice now. Put a rat in for him today and he layed next to it for 10 mins then slithered away. Went back out bought a mouse and within a few seconds of him seeing it,he struck and choked it out in30 seconds.hope I can switch him over in the future.

Take two mice and one rat that weigh the same. The two mice have far more surface area to be covered with fur, which has no nutritional value, than the rat. The rat will have more protein for its weight. IMO rats are a better choice if your snake will take them.

Switching from mice to rats can be difficult since their odor is very different. Try rubbing a mouse on the rat, sometimes it helps. Good luck!

[satomi325]

No vitamins needed. Whole prey has everything needed for a balanced diet.

Rats and mice of equal size have nearly identical nutritional count.

The differences are almost the same except on fat content(rats have a slightly higher fat%). You have to compare animals of the same size.
An adult mouse is not going to be the same as an adult rat. But a 10 gram mouse is going to be nearly the same as a 10 gram rat.
The only real benefits of feeding rats is that you just have to feed one rat to compared to multiple mice.
It's more of a convenience factor than higher nutritional value.


Nutrient Composition of Whole Vertebrate Prey by RodentPro:
Adult mice (>10g)
- Kcal/g =5.25
- Crude protein % =55.8
- Crude fat % =23.6

Rats (10-50g)
- kcal/g = 5.55
- Crude protein % = 56.1
- Crude fat % = 27.5

http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp

Whole prey according to the USDA(page 14 of their PDF provided below):
Adult mice (>10g)
- Kcalorie/g =5.77
- Crude protein % = 56.9
- Crude fat % = 23.5

Rats (10-50g)
- kcalorie/g = 5.67
- Crude protein % = 60.3
- Crude fat % = 26

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/Who...nal02May29.pdf

Additional data found on a non scientific source:
Adult mice (>10g)
- kcal/g = 5.25
- Crude protein % = 55.8
- Crude fat % = 23.6

Rats (10-50g)
-kcal/g =5.55
- crude protein % =56.1
- crude fat % = 27.5

http://www.leedspetshops.co.uk/nutri...snakes-page-69

[NYHC4LIFE8899]

Take two mice and one rat that weigh the same. The two mice have far more surface area to be covered with fur, which has no nutritional value, than the rat. The rat will have more protein for its weight. IMO rats are a better choice if your snake will take them.

Switching from mice to rats can be difficult since their odor is very different. Try rubbing a mouse on the rat, sometimes it helps. Good luck!

yeah I've heard about that..I ave 2 fuzzies at home now in a small 1/2 gallon type tank..one a fuzzy mouse the other a fuzzy rat..keeping them warm and hopefully they survive anther 4-5 days,then I'll try the rat with my black pastel. Hopefully he takes to it. But as long as he eats,I'm happy.

No vitamins needed. Whole prey has everything needed for a balanced diet.

Rats and mice of equal size have nearly identical nutritional count.

The differences are almost the same except on fat content(rats have a slightly higher fat%). You have to compare animals of the same size.
An adult mouse is not going to be the same as an adult rat. But a 10 gram mouse is going to be nearly the same as a 10 gram rat.
The only real benefits of feeding rats is that you just have to feed one rat to compared to multiple mice.
It's more of a convenience factor than higher nutritional value.


Nutrient Composition of Whole Vertebrate Prey by RodentPro:
Adult mice (>10g)
- Kcal/g =5.25
- Crude protein % =55.8
- Crude fat % =23.6

Rats (10-50g)
- kcal/g = 5.55
- Crude protein % = 56.1
- Crude fat % = 27.5

http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp

Whole prey according to the USDA(page 14 of their PDF provided below):
Adult mice (>10g)
- Kcalorie/g =5.77
- Crude protein % = 56.9
- Crude fat % = 23.5

Rats (10-50g)
- kcalorie/g = 5.67
- Crude protein % = 60.3
- Crude fat % = 26

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/Who...nal02May29.pdf

Additional data found on a non scientific source:
Adult mice (>10g)
- kcal/g = 5.25
- Crude protein % = 55.8
- Crude fat % = 23.6

Rats (10-50g)
-kcal/g =5.55
- crude protein % =56.1
- crude fat % = 27.5

http://www.leedspetshops.co.uk/nutri...snakes-page-69

Satomi'once again,TY. Yes I heard that as well,more fat,lol..someone told me last week that rats have more fat And protein and will help my snake grow quicker