Crazy genetic question but I think it works

[Scirlygirl]

Hey y'all

So correct me if I am wrong, this is just a theory. If I were to breed 100% piebald het cinnamon to a 100% piebald black pastel would the babies come out as possible piebalds, super black (solid black), lower percentage het normals, cinnamon, and black pastels? Also what are my chances of getting a piebald and what kind would it be? What are my chances of a super black , I heard 1/4 percent? I've given this a lot of thought haha. Fill me in guys

Thanks!

[The Serpent Merchant]

Here you go: http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wi...female=33,83:1

[Pythonfriend]

umm, cinnamon is codominant, black pastel is also codominant. so there is no such thing as "het cinnamon" or "het black pastel", instead you have a super form.

with a recessive like pebald, you can either have te visual form, or the hets, which look like normals.

so, let me try to interpret what you said....

its a cinnamon 100% het pied to a black pastel 100% het pied.

the calculator says this:

Male:	Cinnamon, Het Piebald
Female:	Black Pastel, Het Piebald
Percent	Fraction	Traits
6.25%	1/16	Piebald, 8 Ball
6.25%	1/16	Piebald, Cinnamon
6.25%	1/16	Piebald, Black Pastel
6.25%	1/16	Piebald
12.5%	1/8	8 Ball, Het Piebald
12.5%	1/8	Cinnamon, Het Piebald
12.5%	1/8	Black Pastel, Het Piebald
12.5%	1/8	Het Piebald
6.25%	1/16	8 Ball
6.25%	1/16	Cinnamon
6.25%	1/16	Black Pastel
6.25%	1/16	Normal
View Results Page

but since you cannot differentiate between het pied and the ones that are not het pied, apart from the pieds, you get:

18.75% = 3/16 8 ball 66% possible het pied
18.75% = 3/16 cinnamon 66% possible het pied
18.75% = 3/16 black pastel 66% possible het pied
18.75% = 3/16 normal 66% possible het pied


and yes the 8-ball piebald would qualify as a panda pied, just with a very dark brown instead of black (normally panda pied is a super black pastel pied, not an 8-ball).

[Scirlygirl]

Thank you so much! I think I am going to invest in these two snakes if I can find them!!!

[MrLang]

Technically a Cinnamon IS heterozygous for cinnamon and super is homozygous for cinnamon. Since it's a co-dominant mutation this just means the heterozygous genotype expresses the phenotype. They are still both heterozygous (1 copy) and homozygous (2 copies). The difference with a recessive gene is just that it only expresses the phenotype when it is homozygous in genotype.

[Pythonfriend]

Technically a Cinnamon IS heterozygous for cinnamon and super is homozygous for cinnamon. Since it's a co-dominant mutation this just means the heterozygous genotype expresses the phenotype. They are still both heterozygous (1 copy) and homozygous (2 copies). The difference with a recessive gene is just that it only expresses the phenotype when it is homozygous in genotype.

that is correct, but in the common usage of words there is no such thing as a "100% het cinnamon" because the word "het" is only ever used when talking about recessives. There is a heterozygous cinnamon called a cinnamon, but there is no "het cinnamon", because that would imply that you get a cinnamon by breeding two normal looking "het cinnamon" together. and thats not correct.

its linguistics, but strictly speaking "het" is a different word with a different meaning and different common usage compared to the more precise "heterozygous". "hets" are supposed to look normal, maybe with some kind of markers maybe without. You can find a context where it makes sense to talk about a "heterozygous spider", but the term "100% het spider" never makes sense.

[Scirlygirl]

Hey guys? I think you misunderstood my question. I said PIEBALD HET Cinnamon and black pastel meaning they would carry the piebald gene in them and when bred together I should have a chance at producing a panda, super black, and piebald among the lower percentage of het black pastels and cinnys. Make sense?

[The Serpent Merchant]

Hey guys? I think you misunderstood my question. I said PIEBALD HET Cinnamon and black pastel meaning they would carry the piebald gene in them and when bred together I should have a chance at producing a panda, super black, and piebald among the lower percentage of het black pastels and cinnys. Make sense?

Well that's really not the way the term het is generally used. I understood what you meant but the "het" should go before the morph in question, as in het piebald, het clown, het albino. What you said generally would imply a visual piebald, het cinnamon which as was pointed out isn't correct.

[Scirlygirl]

Ah gotcha, didn't know there was a creation placement. Now that we are all on the same page, do you guys think its a good idea to breed the two? I would like to find a breeder that may have them? I know its probably not too common, and any idea how much these het might cost?

[The Serpent Merchant]

There is a lot of potential with this pairing, certainly worth doing.

I haven't seen many of these around, and they will probably be pretty expensive. It might be a better plan to pickup a male visual pied, a female cinnamon, and a female black pastel and make some yourself.