Which One For Me? (BP, RTB, JCP, WP, etc.)

[Alicia]

If the cage space is an issue, a ball definitely a better choice than a carpet. A female BP has a good chance of getting close to your size-range and the girls are certainly very stout all grown up.

But if you really love the look of jungles, the bigger cage is worth it. I adore my jungle. She's more or less full grown at 6.5 feet (not sure how much she weighs). Sometimes moody, but mine has never been snappy. Like threezero says, though, the feeding response is intense. Feeding her is a little intimidating. That said, though, she's probably my personal fave.

They're not on your list, and they're a pretty penny, but what about Angolans? My female especially is trying hard to oust the carpet as favorite snake. They're alert, inquisitive, can grow to a respect size (up to 7 ft for a female), arguably more resilient in the face of occasional keeper error than BPs, and eat like champions. A little squirrely at first, but with more peeing than biting.

[loud]

threezero - thank you so much for your great post, exactly what I was looking for!! Yes, I have heard about ball pythons being boring and just not very mobile, haha. Not what I envisioned in a snake, but if I were being honest, maybe a slower and quieter snake would be better for a beginner like me.

Carpet pythons really are stunning. I know I keep saying that I will try to make the best decision for me, but my bias towards the carpet pythons is strong! It's difficult not to be drawn to their beauty. Incredibly, really. Will try my best to make a level headed decision and be realistic about what I can and cannot do.

I don't mind a mean baby that doesn't do too much damage, nor do I really even mind getting bitten if I make a handler error. That's all a part of the experience, I say! But I would like a snake that I can handle frequently, and if I have to worry every time I reach my hand into the tank, then I'd really rather not. Any issues with your carpet pythons snapping or lunging at you when it isn't feeding day?

And thanks for the reminder about the messiness LOL I forgot to consider that!! Since I really would like to have a snake that I can take out frequently, that might be something to consider...

Would it be preferable to get one as a baby or an adult? Babies have the advantage of being easier to handle and hopefully easier to mold as well. But if I can find an adult that already has a good disposition... although I guess it would be difficult to prove at an expo that the adult is genuinely good natured (and not just stressed by the environment or fatigued).


Alicia - huge thanks for your thoughts as well! If you'd be able to answer any of the questions about carpet pythons above, I'd also appreciate it How large is the enclosure you have for your jungle carpet python?

Sounds like both you and threezero love the more active, "fiestier" (as threezero says) snakes! Do you handle them frequently? This will be my only snake and I really would like to have one I could handle frequently, and let out into the room occasionally. Is this an unrealistic expectation, or a perfectly fine plan?

I did look up Angolans and ouch! That price range is a little scary. My budget for snake and set up is $300 - $400 total and I really don't see myself going outside of that price range. It's a shame, really, because I think Angolans would be a great fit!

I'll most likely be getting a ball python, although I am still hoping that I can manage a carpet python instead.

[artgecko]

Going to go slightly off-topic here since they aren't on your list... You might want to look into sand boas (kenyan sand boas).. The females get about 3 feet but are heavy and not skinny looking. They are a moderate price (you can get a normal for around $50 and an anery for around $90). They are not active in the day but come out at night, have a great feeding response (mine eat f/t), and are very beginner friendly. The females will need at most a 20gl long tank as adults. Plus they have very cool patterns and color combinations. Mine also deal with handling very well.

I have not kept any of the species you listed as choices so I can't speak to their appropriateness in your situation. One note on cages though, unless you are dead set on an aquarium as a cage, you can house ball pythons in bins (of the rubbermaid type), which might be a cheaper setup option for you. Also, petco runs a $1 / gallon sale every so often and you can get a 20gl for $20, 40gl for $40 etc. This might be a good option if you want a glass tank and can't locate one on craigslist.

Good luck!

[threezero]

I want to say my carpet doesn't lunge on non feeding days but last night i had a girl over and she wanted to check out my snakes and of course my carpet scare the bejeesus out of her by striking the side of the tub, I just feed her 2 days ago .

As for starting out with babies or adults, And a big adult carpet could be intimidating consider your lack of experiences with snakes. And you miss out of the fun of watching your baby grow up. I recommend if you are really into carpets but still have concern with they temperament to pick out a babies that is tamer already. Than again I don't have too much experience with carpet I only have one, maybe other ppl that have kept more carpets in chime in?

Seriously if i were to have only one pet snake, I would definately take the carpet, they are just so much fun.

[loud]

Going to go slightly off-topic here since they aren't on your list... You might want to look into sand boas (kenyan sand boas).. The females get about 3 feet but are heavy and not skinny looking. They are a moderate price (you can get a normal for around $50 and an anery for around $90). They are not active in the day but come out at night, have a great feeding response (mine eat f/t), and are very beginner friendly. The females will need at most a 20gl long tank as adults. Plus they have very cool patterns and color combinations. Mine also deal with handling very well.

I have not kept any of the species you listed as choices so I can't speak to their appropriateness in your situation. One note on cages though, unless you are dead set on an aquarium as a cage, you can house ball pythons in bins (of the rubbermaid type), which might be a cheaper setup option for you. Also, petco runs a $1 / gallon sale every so often and you can get a 20gl for $20, 40gl for $40 etc. This might be a good option if you want a glass tank and can't locate one on craigslist.

Good luck!

Yes, I'll definitely be keeping an eye on the Petco $1 per gallon sales. Sounds like a great deal, and I really haven't been able to find much on Craigslist. CL was the first place I turned to A few friends of mine have actually mentioned using large bins before which I had never thought of before. I'll have to look into that! We've certainly got plenty of those lying around. If that could work for a ball python (especially a young/growing one), I would definitely consider it.

Thanks for the recommendation as well! The sand boas are stunning, the colors and patterns are breathtaking. Unfortunately I am just not a fan of the head and prefer something more defined. They really are lovely, though!

I want to say my carpet doesn't lunge on non feeding days but last night i had a girl over and she wanted to check out my snakes and of course my carpet scare the bejeesus out of her by striking the side of the tub, I just feed her 2 days ago .

As for starting out with babies or adults, And a big adult carpet could be intimidating consider your lack of experiences with snakes. And you miss out of the fun of watching your baby grow up. I recommend if you are really into carpets but still have concern with they temperament to pick out a babies that is tamer already. Than again I don't have too much experience with carpet I only have one, maybe other ppl that have kept more carpets in chime in?

Seriously if i were to have only one pet snake, I would definately take the carpet, they are just so much fun.

LOL!! They sure do sound like a lot of fun, and yours sounds like it has personality! I wish my friends were into snakes so that I could visit and get a better feel for them. That would really help me make my decision... but my friends are boring so this forum is my best source of information.

I will definitely go ahead and look for a baby first, thanks for your thoughts on the matter! Everything you've said makes sense, and I definitely will feel more at ease with even a more temperamental snake if I've had it since it was small. The occasional striking at the tank won't bother me that much, what I don't want is a snake that snaps every time I reach into the tank and refuse to be handled. A snake that allows itself to be handled frequently is a big criteria for me.

Really wish I didn't have to wait until January to meet these snakes!

[xFenrir]

To be honest, if you are handy (or know people that are that would be willing to help), you could build a tank that will hold the larger species you like (BCI's, the larger species of Carpets, etc.) for relatively cheap. We built the tank that we have our 6tf. BCI boa in, and I'm positive that we did not exceed $300, plus BCI's (normals, at least) are around $60. And if you start off with a baby, you'll have a few years easily to build an enclosure for his/her adult size, and in the meantime you can house them in Rubbermaid tubs with some heat tape for dirt cheap. If you're really set on having one of the larger "beginner" snakes then I would say do your research and go for it, because I don't see a point in getting an animal that's not really what you wanted. That's how people end up with the whole "I'm bored with my ____ now" mentality. Get what you want from the start, both for your sake and your pets'. Not one day has passed that I haven't been happy I adopted my boa, because I KNEW I wanted a large snake.

Just some of my knowledge on BCI's (since most people have been talking about Carpets and BPs):

PROS
-While larger and more heavy-bodied than most of the "beginner" snakes, a male will still stay in the 5-7ft. range, with a female between the 6-8ft. range. Even with their size, most adults are very docile and laid-back snakes which is why people like them as "beginner" snakes for getting into the larger species. As long as you put in the research to make sure you have proper husbandry, care and handling, I really don't see any reason why a BCI couldn't be someone's first snake.
-It would be rare if a BCI had to be fed on anything larger than jumbo rats. My girl eats large rats even at her size. Unlike BPs, boas do very well with smaller-sized meals, since they don't process fat as fast as BPs or others do.
-It's also VERY rare to have a BCI that refuses meals. They're nicknamed "garbage disposals" for a reason!
-I'm 5'4"/105lbs and I've never had a problem handling our girl. She's heavy and long, but I've never felt like I couldn't handle her myself. It's always a good idea though with any snake over 6ft to have someone at least home with you in case you DO run into trouble.
-Excellent feeding response (although some might call that a con). Tongs (especially longer ones when they get older) are a very, very good idea.
-BCI's are known for being very inquisitive and "in your face" snakes. They don't mind being out as much as BPs, and even seem to enjoy being taken out to be handled or put down for a cruising session. Just be sure to watch them to make sure they don't get anywhere they shouldn't.
-They are more forgiving of husbandry mistakes. While you should strive to get it right before putting the actual animal in, they are hardier than other boa species and if your temperature should flux a little or something odds are you'll be okay. Just be sure to check your husbandry regularly so that if it DOES happen you do catch it. If your temperatures drop/raise a degree or two they won't go off feed for 3 months lol. (Most people seem to find their BCIs like it cooler than BPs or other snakes do, with about 88F for a hotspot and about 77F ambient)

CONS
-You'll need AT LEAST a 5x2x2 tank for an adult male, for a female I would strongly recommend a 6x2x2. Again though, you can build one for relatively cheap, or if you get a baby you can house it in a tub and save for a pre-made vivarium, like an Animal Plastics or Boaphile. Glass tanks are NIGHTMARES for getting them to hold heat and humidity properly, and an adult BCI won't fit in any glass tank I've ever seen sold at a pet shop, haha.
-Unless you have a place to get bulk rats from, it can get mildly expensive to have to buy a $10 rat from a store every week (or two weeks as they get older). If there's nowhere near you that does, there ARE places where you can order online from and have them shipped to you.
-If you get bit when they're more grown up, it WILL hurt and it WILL bleed, lol. Just ask my boyfriend. If you end up with a feisty one, or if you don't feel completely comfortable just reaching in to pick up a larger snake, it might be a good investment to hook train them.


If a larger snake is really what you have your heart set on, BCIs are fantastic snakes for beginners who want to own the large species. I can't stress enough though, RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH. Make SURE that you feel comfortable with the breed and its care, and confident that you can properly house it throughout its life before going to get one. Even if most of them are pretty docile ol' slugs, they can still be a handful for someone not prepared, or if they decide they're gonna be in a snit that day.


EDIT: When I say BCI, I mean the species Boa Constrictor Imperiator, also called the Colombian Red Tail Boa.

[John1982]

Please remember that I am a complete novice to snakes and reptiles in general (and amphibians). There are a few things that I am expecting to compromise on, but that's a general idea of what I'm looking for.

I know it's not on your list but just a regular old corn snake gets my vote. Normal corns are one of the most beautiful snakes around with their striking colors and patterns. They're virtually bullet proof as far as snakes go and handle real nice too. It's really the perfect species and will always be one of the coolest snakes in my eyes. I still get a bigger thrill out of finding a nice corn when herping over pretty much anything else.

[mikoh4792]

EDIT: When I say BCI, I mean the species Boa Constrictor Imperiator, also called the Colombian Red Tail Boa.

Colombians are part of bci. But bci are not called colombians. OP if you want a boa constrictor you should look at the insular or dwarf localities. Tarahumaras, Sonoran Desert, Caulker/Crawl/Ambergris cayes, Pearl Islands...etc so many more other subspecies of boa that don't exceed 6 feet in length and do well on a conservative feeding regimen.

[loud]

xFenrir - thank you for such a well thought out and detailed post, I really appreciate it! A red tail boa sounds perfect if it weren't for the enclosure size issue, and aesthetically they are my favorite after JCPs. I really like what you said about their inquisitiveness, I'd love that in a snake. I definitely want a snake that doesn't mind being out.

Very interesting point about building my own enclosure, though. I am admittedly not handy at all but a couple of my friends are very into DIY type projects, so that is something to look into. And from the sounds of it, a properly furnished Rubbermaid tub seems to be a common recommendation for young snakes, and I know that would save me a lot of money initially.

Otherwise, snake size isn't an issue, but I'll be sure to remember what you said about having someone in the house in case I need help. I'm a 5' 7" girl and have wrestled down angry 80 lb dogs, but snakes are fast.

You mentioned some really good points about getting the snake that I want... I am pretty adaptable when it comes to my pets, but I also try to be reasonable. I'm all for loving each of your pets for what they are, but I'd also like to get something I really liked from the start. After all, that is where a lot of my interest begins. So I'll definitely do my research on and outside the forum and some heavy thinking as well. If I don't feel ready for a snake come January then that is fine, there is a smaller expo in August that I can always go to. I'll definitely be at the one in January though just for the hands on experience of meeting the snakes and talking to the experts.

A question about tubs - it does seem like they are a heavy favorite, how do you keep the tubs closed? Are there any links to tub set ups that aren't snake racks?

Again, I really appreciate the info on Red Tail Boas, thank you so much for writing that all out for me.

John1982 - thanks for the suggestions, and apologies for such a long original post, but I did state near the end that I'm not interested in corn snakes or children's pythons. I know corn snakes are the beginner snakes, but to be honest I find them a little dainty. They are stunning and very cute, but just not what I'm looking for at the moment. Although, who knows? Maybe I'll go to the expo and fall in love with one anyway!

mikoh4792 - thanks!! I'll look them up and do some research on them. Have never heard of them before, of course, so thanks!

[artgecko]

Here's one that looks good. Try cruising the different forums here and looking just at the stickies at the top of each forum, I found this immensely helpful when I first started out. I think his idea (in the link) about mounting the heating pads on a surface that you sit the tubs on is genius.. Cleaning a glass tank really stinks due to this and this would be an advantage of the tubs.

Most people either use binder / bulldog clips or luggage belts to keep the tubs closed. You can also get taller tubs which might be useful for arboreal species, but I'm not sure how the heating situation is with those (how you would keep the ambient temp up).

Another thing that might be useful to you... I know your budget is tight, but I'd suggest investing in a good thermostat (a proportional one like a herpstat can run about $100). I was skating by with a rheostat (lamp dimmer), but I had to check temps like 5-6 times a day. I also tried to save money and bought a cheaper thermostat (a non-proportional one that was about $40), but the temp would swing greatly (like by 8-10 degrees) as it shut off and turned back on the heating element. If you can find a herpstat or vivarium electronics thermostat used cheap that would be an awesome find and could save you a lot of frustration later on.

One final thing to consider... If you're planning on getting a snake at an upcoming show, see if you can view a list of vendors that will be at the show on the show website. Go over to fauna classifieds (it's a different forum) and check out their BOI (board of inquiry). Do a search for the names of the vendors and see what others' feedback is on them. Good deals can be had at shows and I purchased both of my first snakes at one, but I also looked up some vendors beforehand and chose to avoid them based on their BOI feedback. There is also an inquiry forum here on BPnet that you can search and / or post to ask what people's experiences have been with a seller.
Good luck!
Artgecko