Leopard : Not Allelic?

[Pythonfriend]

oh.

actually it sounds like bad news for me. i think its just super cool and awesome that all leopards are het pied; and now its no longer true because someone managed to split the two things apart.

i guess the classic pied-maker leopards will now be the premium version, with the isolated leopards being more of a curiosity.

BTW the mechanism how this can happen is quite clear. if different genes are on different chromosomes they just get randomly distributed during reproduction. if two genes are on the same chromosome, but far apart within that chromosome, its still pretty much random because crossovers that can combine both onto the same cromosome or that can split them up again are likely to occur between those two locations. crossovers happen frequently, and if there is lots of space where crossovers can happen between the two genes, it will happen basically all the time.

if two genes are on the same chromosome and closer together, chances of a crossover happening between the two genes drop down. the closer they are together, the harder it is to combine them, and when they combine, they will stick together to a degree.

if two genes are incredibly close together on the same chromosome, basically almost allelic, then to split them you need a crossover to happen at exactly the right location. which is very unlikely. so you can work with your pied-maker leopards for years without such a split happening in your breeding operation.

that might be whats going on here. so leopard and pied are almost perfectly allelic but still have some base pairs of distance between them.

[RandyRemington]

Regarding the homozygous pin, maybe the problem is the definition of the herper genetic slang "super". Perhaps if Brian said there was no super pin he meant there was no visually different looking homozygous pinstripe (that is, pinstripe was proven NOT to be co-dominant). Perhaps he was just confirming his reptileradio.net interview giving the evidence that pinstripe is dominant via his proven homozygous pin male.

[OhhWatALoser]

Regarding the homozygous pin, maybe the problem is the definition of the herper genetic slang "super". Perhaps if Brian said there was no super pin he meant there was no visually different looking homozygous pinstripe (that is, pinstripe was proven NOT to be co-dominant). Perhaps he was just confirming his reptileradio.net interview giving the evidence that pinstripe is dominant via his proven homozygous pin male.

very well could be the case, I mean I know what he told me and everything we discussed but me typing it makes it 2nd hand to everyone else. Either way I'll be trying to prove out some homozygous pins eventually. My pin female is the start of a dinker project. Gave me some interesting babies, so I'll breeding her lemonblast son back to her. So I want to see if I can get anything to come from the dinker side and also I'll be making some possible super pins. I know of 2 other people that already have possible super pins, so hopefully in the next few years someone can come forth with some data and pictures of a proven super.

[Pythonfriend]

maybe you could tackle the super pin question statistically?

if it is mysteriously absent, pin to pin would give you 66% pinstripes. if it exists and is just hiding really well, pin to pin would result in 75% pins.

now 66% and 75% are rather close together, but with enough clutches and enough eggs your actual results will get closer and closer to one of these two numbers. and with some potential super pins involved in some of the breedings, the number will even be above 75%. with good record keeping, you can also add older pin to pin clutches from the past into the statistics. just make sure you remove any split sire clutches and "whos your daddy" clutches.

[OhhWatALoser]

maybe you could tackle the super pin question statistically?

if it is mysteriously absent, pin to pin would give you 66% pinstripes. if it exists and is just hiding really well, pin to pin would result in 75% pins.

now 66% and 75% are rather close together, but with enough clutches and enough eggs your actual results will get closer and closer to one of these two numbers. and with some potential super pins involved in some of the breedings, the number will even be above 75%. with good record keeping, you can also add older pin to pin clutches from the past into the statistics. just make sure you remove any split sire clutches and "whos your daddy" clutches.

I think it would be quicker just to attempt to prove out some possible super pins. After X amount of failed attempts, might start to question whats going on.