Morning Gripe: A thought on lowering prices too far

[BHReptiles]

If you have the room to raise up some of your babies for a while there is a huge demand later on. I find early in the season and after the new year are when stuff sells the fastest. It's amazing how I'll have some common stuff on my site for months with little interest and then in February I wish I had ten more. Patience is key.

^^^ This.

That is the voice of experience talking right there!

I know I'm one of those people who shop like that. A lot of it has to do with where my spending money is at the time. I'm a student so I don't do a whole lot of buying from August-December and February-May simple because I have tuition, books, parking, etc. to pay for. However, during the breaks while I work more hours at my job for extra spending money, I'll have a little extra in my pocket to spend.

[WtGreg]

^^^ This.

That is the voice of experience talking right there!

I know I'm one of those people who shop like that. A lot of it has to do with where my spending money is at the time. I'm a student so I don't do a whole lot of buying from August-December and February-May simple because I have tuition, books, parking, etc. to pay for. However, during the breaks while I work more hours at my job for extra spending money, I'll have a little extra in my pocket to spend.

Indeed Dave has the best response IMO so far.

[sho220]

Indeed Dave has the best response IMO so far.

Kind of agree, but I think it depends on the animal. Holding on to male Cinnys for 6 months doesn't make sense from a $ standpoint. Holding on to (insert hottest new morph here) probably would make sense.

[Raven01]

All these people who have ridiculously low prices I just want to yell at sometimes. Unfortunately I can't go into there ads and post this, but tell me if anyone else with a touch of business sense agrees with me here (or argue, whatever you like):

Why?
That person owes you nothing and, your snakes owe you nothing.
Perhaps you should consider another hobby/business.
The cartel business model will kill this hobby faster than anything. It will also kill prices as you quickly run out of people willing to pay $X for a particular gene, all the while everyone with it is breeding hoping to make a profit.
Supply quickly exceeds demand at a high price point. There is no getting around that simple fact.

Also, buying a $20K hatchling and expecting a ton of sales in the $10+K range is simple ignorance of basic economics on the part of the breeder. And, not realising that when you add up all of your $2-8K sales if you haven't made a decent profit either you have seriously offended the "Odds Gods" or that you may want to examine your business model for other flaws is again, the fault of the breeder.

So I see ads where people are undercutting prices to try to sell off what they have, when it doesn't sell, they lower their own low price. Undercutting the competition is a business tactic, true, but I saw a person who did this lowering, and more lowering still the other day and was fine until I saw the same person post a complaint about the market dying and how unfair it is that they can't get their balls sold for what they want (gonna throw in another detail in a minute, so hold on)... Dumbass, YOU are responsible for this. Alot of factors come in like the power-breeders who breed a gene out like crazy to sell loads off and prices go down as the genes become more available, as one example, but you are one of the factors. Every time an idiot who doesn't know that is a sale price you posted sees your ad, he thinks suddenly this is the new price, then posts his at that price. When he can't sell he reduces it. The next idiot sees that and it continues. This goes on with every "lowest price you'll find" ad and over the course of the year things drop and drop. Next year you will make the same complaint without thinking "hey, maybe the prices dropped because everybody over did it last year and I was one of them."

Let me pause: I know there are many factors to prices, so don't give me a lecture over how many there are, this is just a gripe about one specific factor.

If you think the "new" price is set by a two price here or there, call whatever school gave you an economics degree and demand your money back. And, if you are setting your prices based on a few lower price ads, get out of the business end of the hobby entirely for your own sake.
Breeders like JKR, Rio Bravo, Henry Piorun, BHB, NERD, Markus Jayne, etc are able to if they desire command a higher price for the exact same animal than any basement breeder.
Why? Because, their brand adds value due to the years of experience (i.e. not throwing a new morph at every normal female they can afford and turning out very mixed results) and, the assurance that you will get what you paid for or, if there is a problem it will be dealt with in a professional manner. And, because you are dealing with "best of the best" examples of the morphs you are looking at. That isn't to say that new breeders and basement hobbyists cannot also focus in this direction (in fact I would suggest that they should do exactly this). Just that without the known brand you are going to have trouble commanding the same price when part of the value is the brand.

His complaint was that he can't make back what he spent on his balls and his parents are pissed.... hold up, what? I did some snooping (clicked on his FB page) and the kid was 14! He listed points that he couldn't believe about the market, but it comes down to him being too young to understand the business side of how things work. He relied on his parents and could afford to undercut his own undercut price. He didn't know how to ship and complained those who did were why he couldn't sell his snakes. He complained on and on about all the wrong things, but kept coming back to how bad it is he had to keep reducing his own undercut price. Well kiddo, you need to learn that it is this undercutting for quick sale that is one of MANY factors that affects the market, so you could be to blame for a little bit right there.

Hold on a minute. So, his market was very limited geographically and, he was losing sales to people that could ship?
So, either they were also close to this "undercut" price or they were willing to pay more for other factors.

If you don't understand how a market works, or how a business may rely on shipping, or....so on... don't complain about it being everybody else's fault. We are all a part of the market whether we do these things or not, so we can all be blamed if nothing else just by producing more genes and getting them out there. We all have to suffer when prices drop, but it is the market as a collective, it isn't the market attacking you as an individual (that's basically what his complaints came down to, it was unfair to him).

Which is what this thread comes off as.

People will lower prices and we can't control everybody, we all complain and hate to see it, and hate to have to compete with the reductions others give, but that is how it is. The best thing is to think are you in this for the money like this kid was, or the hobby of breeding the snakes. If you look at this as a money maker, you will end up sounding like this kid, but further need to figure out how what you do this year can affect your making money next year. Instead do this as a hobby and love what you do, and the market is a perk at that point, not the main factor (obviously if you are a breeder with a shop as your livelyhood, this is a little different). I just realized I did actually contradict myself above, but rather than fix it, I will leave it be as Babies are crying and I have to go have a life off the computer. I would love to go on, but instead, on the last point about hobby versus solely for the money, the final part to Doughy John's rant (and this is what set me off to post this gripe) was that he now wants to get out of balls because it isn't worth it to stay in them if he can't make "real good money" off them...REALLY?!?!

Now, this makes much more sense. And, honestly is the hobby (and the animals) not better off every single time somebody like this gets frustrated and leaves the hobby?

[snakesRkewl]

It's been the same thing for as long as I have been in the hobby.
More and more hobbyist breeding more and more snakes.
There's just no way the market can consume the quantity of snakes that are being produced.
Price drops are going to continue to happen as long as the supply is many times what the demand is.

[brobertson]

I would love to get some input on this topic because I feel like I have some similarities to the "John Doe" that was spoken about by the OP. I am 16, and I do plan on breeding my BPs within the next year or so. My one pairing also has the potential to produce some pretty high-end snakes.

As a buyer I'm going to be very hesitant about purchasing from a 14 year old. What if something goes wrong on his end and he refuses to make things right? Do I go after his parents? Because legally going after him is a nonstarter.

I would really appreciate a little input on this subject because I know that many people would be understandably nervous about purchasing from me. Do I just have to accept that many people aren't willing to take the risk of buying from me, or is there anything I can do to make them feel more secure with the purchase? Also, if many buyers on the market are this nervous about buying from a minor, I feel that it would be difficult for me to sell my animals without doing a pretty significant price drop. I can sit on my hatchlings for a pretty long time, but it would obviously hurt me financially. Is there any way to get around this? I have a reference, but it isn't even on the BOI, and apart from that I would have to rely on my decent reputation here. I believe that I have quality breeders who will produce quality babies, but are these reasonable concerns? Thanks!

[brobertson]

Man, my posts are a serious turn off to people! Anyone?

[Crazymonkee]

If you have any references I would ask them if they'd be willing to post them on the BOI.
If you're already thinking of price dropping to sell then its not a very good idea.
The only thing that makes people secure is a good rep, but everyone starts somewhere.
If you have high quality the buyer will come. And maturity speaks louder than age

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[MootWorm]

I think it's all about the way you handle yourself. A 40 year old can throw a tantrum just as well as a 14 year old . I wouldn't hesitate to buy from a minor (within reason) if he presents himself as a mature, responsible keeper and breeder. Also, there's a significant difference between 14 and 16 or 17, IMO. Basically it's all on an individual basis. If I'm sketched out by a seller, I wouldn't purchase regardless of their age.

On that reference you mentioned, what was the nature of it? Personal reference, or a previous buyer?

[Crazymonkee]

I think it's all about the way you handle yourself. A 40 year old can throw a tantrum just as well as a 14 year old . I wouldn't hesitate to buy from a minor (within reason) if he presents himself as a mature, responsible keeper and breeder. Also, there's a significant difference between 14 and 16 or 17, IMO. Basically it's all on an individual basis. If I'm sketched out by a seller, I wouldn't purchase regardless of their age.

On that reference you mentioned, what was the nature of it? Personal reference, or a previous buyer?

Good question I assumed it was a buyer...

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