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  1. #1
    Registered User PsychD_Student's Avatar
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    Why would anyone buy het a toffee/candy for more than a toffino/candino?

    Earlier this season I saw many breeders selling the candinos/toffinos for less than the het toffees/candies. Can anyone think of a reason why that would be more helpful? I mean, if you think about it, the albino gene would be a marker to let you know if your BP is heterozygous for toffee or not. I mean, you get the same percentage breakdown of the gene with the added bonus of having either an exact idea of what you're genetics are, or at worst your offspring is either het toffee or albino instead of toffee and normal. Plus, you have a cool looking het for toffee! Seems like a no brainer. Anyone have anything to add, or explain what I've missed with this one?

  2. #2
    Registered User Badgemash's Avatar
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    They were pricing them higher or selling them for higher?
    -Devon

    0.1 Axanthic Bee (Pixel)
    0.2 Axanthic Pastel (Cornelia, Short Round)
    0.1 Axanthic (Bubbles)
    0.1 Bee het Axanthic (Nipper)
    0.1 Lesser (Lydia)
    0.1 het Lavender (Poppy)
    0.1 het Hypo (Cookie)
    1.0 Killerbee het Axanthic (Yellow Dude)
    1.0 Pied (Starry Starry Dude)
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  3. #3
    Registered User PsychD_Student's Avatar
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    Well I guess I'm not completely sure if they were selling them for higher, as I didn't get one (yet ) but they were definitely being priced higher. Its hard for me to understand why one would a het over a toffino, which is a het toffee plus albino which happens to make a toffino because they're allelic. I wish all my hets were as easy to identify! lol

  4. #4
    Registered User Badgemash's Avatar
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    Granted it's not my favorite recessive area, so I'm not necessarily qualified, but if there's no size difference I don't understand the logic of that pricing.
    -Devon

    0.1 Axanthic Bee (Pixel)
    0.2 Axanthic Pastel (Cornelia, Short Round)
    0.1 Axanthic (Bubbles)
    0.1 Bee het Axanthic (Nipper)
    0.1 Lesser (Lydia)
    0.1 het Lavender (Poppy)
    0.1 het Hypo (Cookie)
    1.0 Killerbee het Axanthic (Yellow Dude)
    1.0 Pied (Starry Starry Dude)
    1.0 Butter Hypo (Spooky Dude)
    1.0 PH Lavender (Little Dude)

  5. #5
    BPnet Veteran bad-one's Avatar
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    Depends, I've seen bigger breeders asking A LOT for het toffee babies. I got my yearling (just short of 500g) het for $850 shipped so I figure that's pretty reasonable.

    I wouldn't buy a toffino for my toffee project simply because you don't know which babies are het for what and I don't care to sift through the albinos/hets created.
    Brittany Davis
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  7. #6
    BPnet Veteran Luke Martin's Avatar
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    Even though it works with Albino, many people want to keep the Toffee/Candy stuff pure, without the Albino gene in them. A Toffino/Candino is a cross and when bred to a normal the babies are het for either one, and you can't tell the difference most of the time. I personally believe in keeping it pure and keeping Albino out of it, though the crosses are quite nice as well.

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  9. #7
    Registered User PsychD_Student's Avatar
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    I suppose I was thinking of it like this:

    If I was going to buy a pair het toffees to breed, I would hope to get 25% toffee, 50% het toffee, and 25% normal. I wouldn't know which of the remaining offspring carried the toffee gene because they're all phenotypically normal, as toffee isn't a visual heterozygous mutation like mojave, pastel, or any other incomplete dominant ("co-dom" = ). I wouldn't be sure of what is normal or what is het for toffee. However, if I were breeding a toffino to toffino instead of het toffee to het toffee, for example, I would know exactly what all of the offspring are. The genetic breakdown would be: 25% toffee, 50% toffino and 25% albino. No question as to what the genetics are, because everything is visual. Its always good to be sure of the offsprings' genetics, right?

    Lets say I had a clutch from a toffino male X toffee female pairing. Statistically, I would get the same 25% toffees as I would with a het to het pairing, but I would also get 25% toffinos from that clutch. Yeah, 50% will be het for either albino or toffee, but the toffinos are a sure thing compared to the het toffee X het toffee route.

    It is NOT like adding albino to the mix will compromise the integrity of the toffee allele. It seems if I was planning to get a pair of hets to make a toffee, getting a pair of cheaper or similarly priced toffinos would be a no brainer. I'd get the toffees I wanted, while getting the benefits of certainty in the genetics of the remaining offspring. No possible hets to worry about selling, because I have certainty on my side.

    Granted, if my goal is to make visual toffee combos, I really need to get a visual animal thats homozygous for the toffee gene. It would be a pain to work on combos without it, but not impossible necessarily. No matter how its put out there, the albino genetics adds a bit, or a lot, of certainty when working with these allelic recessives.

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  11. #8
    BPnet Veteran Luke Martin's Avatar
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    It's harder to tell the difference in babies than you think. I know of Toffino x Albino this year and the breeder had no idea what they had, though they were all visuals. I don't like to question my breedings in the least bit. I also would rather not have to raise snakes up to near adult size just to figure out what they are either.

  12. #9
    Registered User PsychD_Student's Avatar
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    Re: Why would anyone buy het a toffee/candy for more than a toffino/candino?

    Quote Originally Posted by bad-one View Post
    Depends, I've seen bigger breeders asking A LOT for het toffee babies. I got my yearling (just short of 500g) het for $850 shipped so I figure that's pretty reasonable.

    I wouldn't buy a toffino for my toffee project simply because you don't know which babies are het for what and I don't care to sift through the albinos/hets created.
    From what I've been seeing out there, that seems like a really good deal!

    If you think about it, even if when breeding het to het, you still don't know which offspring have the toffee gene and which ones don't. Whenever you're dealing with het toffees, whether those are toffinos (het toffee + het albino) or normal appearing het toffees, unless you breed them to a visual toffee, there will always be possible hets. If I was holding females back, I would rather hold back a toffino that I know had the toffee gene than a 66% het toffee female.

  13. #10
    Registered User PsychD_Student's Avatar
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    Re: Why would anyone buy het a toffee/candy for more than a toffino/candino?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Martin View Post
    It's harder to tell the difference in babies than you think. I know of Toffino x Albino this year and the breeder had no idea what they had, though they were all visuals. I don't like to question my breedings in the least bit. I also would rather not have to raise snakes up to near adult size just to figure out what they are either.

    That is totally legit. They do all look the same as hatchlings, so there is that necessary wait time to be 100% of what your genetics are. I think the thought of waiting until they're almost adults to be able to differentiate them apart is a bit of an exaggeration, but maybe a few months. On the bright side, a 300g female is going to sell for more and a lot faster than a hatchling!

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