My recent virus scare.

[Sariel]

I want to apologize because this is probably going to be long, but I feel its important to really get the details in. I had only heard in passing about this virus before and I think it is one that needs to be more widely discussed due to its highly contagious nature.


Nearly a year ago I traded a breeding pair of hypo X het hypo for a 1.1 pair of het toffee hog babies that had yet to be bred, with the mutual understanding if the trade couldn't be met I would take $300 in cash.
05/31 I took in a 300ish gram cinnie female in trade, the breeding never took and cash was tight, it honestly wasnt a big deal to me either way I enjoy the hobby for what it is.

The cinnie didn't eat for about four weeks, took one live, then did not eat again. The not eating didnt phase me much, its a bP after all, but I did notice she acted.. oddly, it was difficult to describe and I thought she may have a nuero disorder just because her behavior to me seemed off. The only obvious thing I can tell you is she always seemed to have her head propped on something or she was in a partial telescope position. She never bubbled, or wheezed, there was no drool.

Finally one day I took the time to just sit with her and watch her, I expressed to the seller she was acting oddly and we went through his care,I did fnd out he had a couple snakes with RI at the time that he had guessed was due to a power outage. After awhile of sitting and watching the cinnie she yawned and a clear mucus I can only describe as having the consistency of hair gel was in the back of her mouth/throat. The date I noted this was 07/29. I started making arrangements to see a vet and nebulizing with f10 that day.

Now I need to stop and backtrack a little bit here. This seller is local, young, he only has a couple breeding females. I did know that a little over a year ago he had a few snakes catch R.I because he kept them in a shed out back, he had since refurbished it, insulated it better, spent a good deal of money on it and Id even seen it myself. I knew one of the snakes that had come done with R.I had been on a breeder loan with him and after the owner had taken it back it had died.
Heres what I did not know, About four months after the breeder loan died, despite QT, RI symptoms swept through the rest of that persons collection between two different rooms and, despite veterinary visits and treatment, any who got sick. died. I also did not know he had been catching w/c snakes. After I made a post on my local forums about what was happening I also received PMs from a few other people who had received snakes from him that had died.

Moving forward, I was notified about the collection sickness by some mutual friends when they found out I had a snake from this individual. I managed to get a hold of the vet she used once I found out my animal was sick. She advised me, that if its the same thing I needed to euthanize my snake ASAP, or at the very least get it out of my house.
On 08/05 after a steady and rapid decline of the snake I found her laying on her side motionless and mouth open, she was still alive, but almost completely unresponsive and lacking in motorfunction. I had her euthanize and submitted her body for necropsy to LSU.

Here is the biggest reason I have made all of this so public an made an effort to impress on people the process I went through. I can't make you understand the fear and the anger, but I have to express just how much this issue affected how I do -everything- now. From who and how I buy, to QT, to going to shows. Everything.
After I submitted the body, someone referred me to the paramyxovirus. Now as I stated earlier Id heard of this in passing before, I knew it was scary and that it had wiped out some collections. I figured, that since no one had really made a huge fuss about it other than those with losses, that it was likely preventable with good QT practices.
I researched more, and found out I was very wrong. There is not nearly enough information on this virus, it seems we are not entirely sure on incubation periods, but some have been recorded for as long as a year in animals who were treated against the secondary infections and survived to have their immune systems repress it. It is without cure and 100% lethal, it is spread by both feces and the moisture in the animals breath. That latter part means that anything within the same air circulated environment is suspect to infection. Everything in your -house- different floors don't matter, different rooms.. symptoms range from an animal just dropping dead without an outward sign of infection, to simple RI, regurging, loose stool, star gazing, muscle contortions. Alot of symptoms people easily brush off as looking like another sickness entirely, and sometimes are, but are secondary infections to the virus weakening the immune system.

It took three weeks for my necropsy to come back. In this time I shut down my sales and buys. I had animals that were on a breeder loan or purchased that people were kind enough to house for me until this is over. I advised -everyone- involved or who had come into contact with the previous owner of the cinnie and the cinnies owner and all agreed to put a stop on their own collections. I put up a public account in our local group and a few others because I thought it was important for hobbyists to see things as they happen. Ive watched soooo many people with smaller collections say their QT amounts to a month in a tub in a closet before the animals are added to the rack. Rarely do I see anyone who has a QT area that is not connected to their existing animals by ventilation.

My necropsy came back a complete mess. I will link it once I figure out how to black out my personal information. It amount to the lungs, kidneys, intestines, liver all being a mess. She had pnuemonia, which was secondary to severe, long term colitis. It also suggested that per symptoms Paramyxovirus was possible.
I cried when I read that.
Another bill and another wait to send samples to a facility in GA to test for the virus <I wasnt made aware LSU didnt/couldnt test for it, before hand>
My tests came back negative for the virus.

Im sure you can imagine the relief. I almost couldnt look at my animals in alot of that time I waited, wondering if I was going to have to euthanize all of them. or just watch this virus slowly chew away at everything I own till it died. I'm not sorry this happened, at least not with the ending it did. I have changed everything I do now. I will no longer QT new animals in my own house and it will be for a minimum of four months. I dont hold or buy animals at shows anymore, I go to look and socialize. I certainly wont be vending any. I will not buy from auctions, from importers, and I now have a checklist of questions I will ask sellers I am not familiar with before I purchase an animal.


I feel it important to add before hand I Qt'd for three months on a separate floor in a closet that mostly remained closed. I have separate tools and never interacted with animals on the same day if it could be helped. Id it couldnt I changed and washed and did everything I could to mess with the new snakes -after- my own. I threw away uneaten rodents, and only one person has ever been to my house to see and handle my animals.

I'm sure some people were aware of all this virus could do before, but I know alot of people are not, I hope this helps a few to avoid unnecessary expenses and losses. Please don't think the scariest boogy man you have to worry about is IBD, or mites and RI are really all you need to consider when quarantining.

[satomi325]

I'm sorry you had to go through that. I'm glad your resident animals are safe.

Thank you for writing this up to remind keepers that QT and reliable reputable breeders are important.

I personally QT for 6 months minimum. But I've been been thinking to QT up to a year. I know some vets are advocating year long QTs because some illnesses can incubate up to 9 months.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Reinz]

Wow! I am so sorry to the extreme for your losses.

My concerns of the bat are, how many people have the resources to QT in a separate quarters? Very few, I bet. Which means proper QT guidelines will not be followed. But first, what is the prevalence of the virus? Was yours and the breeder's an isolated incident?

I applaud you for doing the right thing. What scares me is unscrupulous folks selling off knowingly sick pets to recoup their investment. And there lies the rub. It will multiply.

But again Qt compliance will be a big issue.

Thanks for the warning and again sorry for your loss.

[Neal]

I'm glad it was only a scare and not the real thing and sorry about your loss as well.

[LunaTheBp]

Well, this certainly is one hell of a scary story to read for a first time snake owner. I'm very glad you posted all this, it gives me several things to watch for in my bp. So when this happened did you have to scrap the tote/tank for the snake that you had been keeping or is there a way to clean it properly? I would like to know for future reference so as to know how to handle the situation should it arise for me, and are there other ways it can form, aside from stool and airways?

Sorry for being so inquisitive, I would just like to know because I'm good at over reacting to things when it comes to protecting something or someone I love.

I am also very sorry for your loss and I hope that you and the others were able to successfully stop the breeder with the cinni's and prevent him from spreading more virus' around.

[Sariel]

Thanks for the condolences, I only had the cinnie for a short time so any sorrow over her death was mostly just me feeling bad she had to die, <and of course the financial loss>
You guys are right, most people do not QT in separate buildings and hardly any long enough or fight off an RI and sell the animal once they figure its better. Nikki I commend you for already keeping yours separate for so long, most of my animals are only going to come from people I know and am familiar with now, and even those will be kept separate for at least the four months, Im honestly leaning closer to six months as you already do and anything I -have- to have from an unfamiliar source will have to wait longer.

[bcr229]

Thank you OP for this information. I've followed this story on FB as well and I am so very sorry you had to deal with all this.

My concerns of the bat are, how many people have the resources to QT in a separate quarters? Very few, I bet. Which means proper QT guidelines will not be followed.

Damned few people have the resources or even the inclination, I'd guess that maybe 10% of the people in the hobby could swing it. Heck, how many times do you read every day, either here or on FB, where an owner thinks the snake has an RI, can't afford a vet visit, and asks for home remedies that will cure it?

I know that money to research reptile diseases is almost non-existent, but even coming up with a blood test for diseases such as IBD or the various PMV's, such as the Coggins test in horses for equine infectious anemia, would go a long way toward stopping their spread.

[Sariel]

Thank you OP for this information. I've followed this story on FB as well and I am so very sorry you had to deal with all this.


Damned few people have the resources or even the inclination, I'd guess that maybe 10% of the people in the hobby could swing it. Heck, how many times do you read every day, either here or on FB, where an owner thinks the snake has an RI, can't afford a vet visit, and asks for home remedies that will cure it?

I know that money to research reptile diseases is almost non-existent, but even coming up with a blood test for diseases such as IBD or the various PMV's, such as the Coggins test in horses for equine infectious anemia, would go a long way toward stopping their spread.

Agreed. All said and done, JUST the expenses for tests ran me about $300. Which is not alot for the peace of mind I got. Its alot for my bank account, Im just like most people I really don't have a ton of money for extras, but I will miss buying a new animal, eating out a few times and going to see a movie for somthing like this. I did find out you can actually do anti-mortem tests if you suspect paramyxovirus as well, now it doesnt detect the virus itself, but it does detect the anti bodies from exposure which is still very useful.

[Sariel]

Went the round about way I'm sure, but here is initial necropsy minus the tissue test for paramyxovirus. I only got a phone call for that I don't think I will be getting any documentation.


nec


nec1