I knew this day was coming! Feeding day blues

[tballer25]

I have had my male BP, Wade, for just under a year. Presently he is about 20-24" in length. I have been feeding him about every 10-14 days, depending on my work schedule. He has always been great about eating, as long as the food is alive. I've read all the dangers of feeding live, but sadly I have had no choice. When Wade was small I tried feeding him prekilled hoppers and he would not. Knowing the dangers of feeding live, I have always watched closely and have kind of held back when it has been time to increase the size of his foods. Background on wade: 10 gal tank (probably should get a larger one soon), he sheds monthly and always in one piece, eats every time his is presented food and does so like a CHAMP.

Side note: There was one time about 2 months ago (I was feeding him small rats for the second time) where by the time I got home from the pet store the rat had died. I am assuming he was sick from the get go. I took this as an opportunity to see if he would eat the prekilled food. To my surprise, after about 30 min of just looking at it, he ate it.

So today was the first time that I decided to buy him a medium sized rat. I thought he was going through a shed cycle so it has been about 18 days since he last ate, he hasn't shed and doesn't seem to be showing signs either. Well when I presented him the food he struck at it once. Now every other time he has had a meal, he takes out his prey like a champion. Maybe I am looking too much into it, but he always strikes right below the neck and coils the body of his prey well; leaving the rats mouth in the open and reducing the chance of him biting back. This time, when he struck, the rat just brushed him off. I was going to take it out, but Wade went in to strike again. Same result. After a few seconds, he struck a third time the rat kind of pushed him into his soak bowl. At this point Wade curled up and I knew it was time to get the rat out of there. Before i could, the rat tried to jump out of the cage, slipped and fell on Wade . I grabbed the rat and put him back in the travel cage. Luckily, wade started moving around after about 1 minute. He didn't seem hurt and it looked like he was looking for the rat again.

So it seems like I need to bite the bullet and force wade into eating prekilled food. So here are my questions:
1) How can I get him to eat prekilled when it has been an issue in the past?
2) Is there any way to tell if he was traumatized by this event?
3) How desperate should I be that he hasn't eat in much longer interval than normal and that his shed has not happened like normal?
4) What are the best ways to kill the prey? I have looked into co2 dry ice, and think its the easiest for me. However, I only buy one rat at a time, and don't think its the most cost effective way of doing it. I am not very comfortable breaking the spine.

I really appreciate you all taking the time to read my long post and appreciate any and all feedback. I just want what is best for my boy Wade!

[Inarikins]

1. Just offer it. If he doesn't take a pre-killed within 30 minutes I would freeze it and offer later as a F/T.

2. He wasn't traumatized. You did the right thing pulling the rat out right away. Sounds like Wade was doing defensive strikes. I'm going to guess a 'medium' rat was too big. I consider a 'medium' rat to be between 100-150 grams and it's what I would feed only to girls over 1000 grams, though my snakes that will only take live have eaten rats that big between 300-500 grams, so it's certainly possible. At 24 inches it's possible the rat was just too big, but without knowing Wade's weight it's hard to cay for certain.

3. How long has it been since he last ate? I'm going to assume, since he's a year old, Wade might be about to start refusing food because he thinks it's the breeding season. My 400 gram normal male just got off a fast that started last October and lasted probably until about the start of August. If he's not losing weight, I wouldn't worry too much, just keep offering on your usual schedule.

4. CO2 is the most humane method available to most herpers, and what I would recommend. It is possible to humanely kill a rat by snapping its neck in a specific way, but it is certainly not what I would feel comfortable doing. I would keep him on live.

[wienkeg]

1)Let him be a little hungry til he takes a f/t one. Lots of tips and tricks elsewhere on forum.
2)Maybe, but probably not, sounds like he wanted round 2 *ding ding*
3)Don't worry, he can go much longer without food. (couple months before even start to be concerned)
4)Asphyxiation with CO2. Put rat in airtight container. Put vinegar and baking soda in cup. Put cup in container, close container lid.
http://www.alysion.org/euthanasia/index.php
http://www.ratfanclub.org/euth.html

Good luck!

[Reinz]

I've had very similar situations and tried to analyze my snake and was worried.

But when I offered the same rat the next day, it WAS a NEW day! Everything went perfect. All my worries were for nothing.

I swear these snakes are like teenagers!

[tballer25]

Thanks for the quick replys!

I was always told by the pet store where I bought him that once he is able to eat without looking like he ate, its time for bigger food. It is a locally owned reptile store in my area and they are very highly reviewed and recommended, so I trust them.

I get a whole lot of different information when it comes to frequency of feeding. I always thought as they grew they needed to be fed less, but am continually told by them that I should still feed him once a week or every 10 days. Is that true?

It has been 19 days now since his last meal, and his last "scheduled" monthly shed should have been about 5 days ago, but there are no signs of shedding presently.

I need to get a small scale and weigh him. I never have, and know it is essential to his health. I just kind of figured I was doing things right, since he always ate his meals and his shed was always in one piece (except for the first one).

[bcr229]

Others who feed live can chime in but I thought that with live feeders you don't offer anything larger than a small rat, just feed more often, because rats from medium up can really do a number on your ball python.

I feed mine every five days until they get up to 500 grams, and then once a week. I have an adult male who will only take a small rat once every 10-14 days though he does get offered food weekly. The rest are good with a weekly schedule, though they'll refuse food sometimes when shedding, or during breeding season.

[tballer25]

Quick update:

I left my rat on the balcony of my house over night (my roommate is terrified of my snake and anything that has to do with it ) and I just checked on it. Looks like it died on its own. I am not sure when. At this point can I present it? Or do I call it quits and buy a few more and freeze them myself. I feel strange giving him one that may have been dead a few hours now.

[OctagonGecko729]

That rat is way too big.

You should be feeding a BP that size something like a weaned rat.

Please post a picture of your snake next to a dollar bill so we can suggest a size for you.

[Annarose15]

It the pet store where you bought the fast-dying rats the same store giving you snake advice? If so, I'd reconsider how far to trust them. Rats don't just die mysteriously in the night on a regular basis.

[tballer25]

I bought this current rat, and the one for the previous feeding, at a local pet shop. Its about a 5 min drive vs the "trusted" one that takes about 45 min round trip depending on traffic. Ill snap a pic of him and post it. Maybe I am just bad at estimating his length. Guys' thoughts on inches aren't always that accurate....