Sub Saharans

[MasonC2K]

So my understanding is that Sub Saharans are from the Sub Saharan region that are distinct by being much larger than normal. Bigger, longer, and with larger heads. I don't have proof. But I have 3 animals fit this description and might be this type. One is a 5' 6" male that I've seen reach 3600g but is currently recovering from breeding fast and is at about 3000g.

I also have a female of the same length that is 3200g and looks thin. LOL! 3 of my hold backs are from her. And one of the females is the largest of the hold backs even though others share her appetite.

Have Sub Saharan been proven genetically?

[gsarchie]

If so I want a girl from you! No idea myself.

[jms0620]

they are also said to have larger litters so to speak like 15 eggs

[OctagonGecko729]

Are they wild caught animals?

As far as I understand their size is not determined in a typical mendelian fashion. The size is polygenetic the same as dwarf and superdwarf reticulated pythons. So, my wild caught female is 100% sub saharan, so are her offspring. But any cross of her offspring into captive ball pythons would result in a 50% sub saharan. Also, when I breed my original sub saharan female to a captive ball python that will produce offspring that is 50% sub saharan. If we take these 50%s back to her, we get 75%s.

I hope that makes sense and isnt too confusing.

[TessadasExotics]

All Ball Pythons are 100% Sub Saharan. The ball pythons that are supposedly "giants" are from the Volta Basin region of Ghana. Personally I don't buy into the "Sub Saharan" Volta giants being any different than any other ball python. The Volta basin area that these "giants" are found in is not hunted as much as other areas. The terrain is much harder to explore and there is quite a bit of tribal strife in the area. I am of the belief that they find larger specimens there because they are able to get older and larger. All ball pythons are capable of reaching over 4kg. All ball pythons can have 15+ egg clutches. Most people breed their females way to small and way too often. Small females that are bred to often are going to stay smaller and have less eggs. Even then, some older, smaller females can and do have 9-15 egg clutches.

[satomi325]

All BPs are technically sub-saharans.

Volta giants are from a specific locale of BPs like what Tessadas said.
They're said to get between 4000-7000+g. And yes, their heads are much larger than their 'regular' counterparts. I believe it was Gale who has a Volta female. She (if it was her) has a photo of her Volta and non-Volta female of the same size together, and the Volta girl's head was significantly larger.

Brian Gundy also has a 5000g female.

[OctagonGecko729]

All Ball Pythons are 100% Sub Saharan. The ball pythons that are supposedly "giants" are from the Volta Basin region of Ghana. Personally I don't buy into the "Sub Saharan" Volta giants being any different than any other ball python. The Volta basin area that these "giants" are found in is not hunted as much as other areas. The terrain is much harder to explore and there is quite a bit of tribal strife in the area. I am of the belief that they find larger specimens there because they are able to get older and larger. All ball pythons are capable of reaching over 4kg. All ball pythons can have 15+ egg clutches. Most people breed their females way to small and way too often. Small females that are bred to often are going to stay smaller and have less eggs. Even then, some older, smaller females can and do have 9-15 egg clutches.

I was referring to the term 100% "sub-saharan" as the marketing term for the locality, not the region in which they live in. Just like a super dwarf retic is not a super dwarf, its a Kalatoa. There is a difference between Voltas and sub saharans. Voltas are imported farther north east, "sub saharans" inhabit the central north of Ghana. You could be correct about the animals attaining larger sizes due to lack of hunting. The only evidence to refute that theory that I can provide is that once the giants get to 500-600g their heads are significantly larger then the rest of the localities. Voltas haven't been imported for over 4 years as far as I understand it. "Sub-saharans", have been though by the dozen.

[MasonC2K]

All Ball Pythons are 100% Sub Saharan. The ball pythons that are supposedly "giants" are from the Volta Basin region of Ghana. Personally I don't buy into the "Sub Saharan" Volta giants being any different than any other ball python. The Volta basin area that these "giants" are found in is not hunted as much as other areas. The terrain is much harder to explore and there is quite a bit of tribal strife in the area. I am of the belief that they find larger specimens there because they are able to get older and larger. All ball pythons are capable of reaching over 4kg. All ball pythons can have 15+ egg clutches. Most people breed their females way to small and way too often. Small females that are bred to often are going to stay smaller and have less eggs. Even then, some older, smaller females can and do have 9-15 egg clutches.

I call pooppies on the bolded statement. Size in any animal or plant is determined mostly by genetics and partially for food intake.

I have a 12 year old girls that has never seen a day over 1600g and was never bred until just last year when I had my first breeding season. It's not like she hardly eats. She is on par with everyone else appetite wise.

Also, age would not make the head so much bigger than normal. And sure BPs grow all their lives but the majority of that growth is done in the first 3-5 years.

As far as the naming, regardless of the technicality, these giants are marketed as "Sub Saharan" everywhere I look for them.

[TessadasExotics]

I was referring to the term 100% "sub-saharan" as the marketing term for the locality, not the region in which they live in. Just like a super dwarf retic is not a super dwarf, its a Kalatoa. There is a difference between Voltas and sub saharans. Voltas are imported farther north east, "sub saharans" inhabit the central north of Ghana. You could be correct about the animals attaining larger sizes due to lack of hunting. The only evidence to refute that theory that I can provide is that once the giants get to 500-600g their heads are significantly larger then the rest of the localities. Voltas haven't been imported for over 4 years as far as I understand it. "Sub-saharans", have been though by the dozen.

Actually you are right about the "marketing" term being used is "sub Saharan". The real facts are that they are from the Volta region. With the Volta basin as being their actual local that they are found. They do have larger heads, but have never heard anyone say they get bigger once they reach 500-600 grams. There are many, many "sub Saharans" that have been imported into this country. Outback has been doing it for quite some time now. We have 1 female that is over 5kg and 3 others that are 4kg.

[gsarchie]

Where is there something backing up the claim that the giants come from Volta? I am curious, not trying to call anyone out. Who wants to plan a trip there to go herping?! LOL