A collection of questions

[DestinyLynette]

For personal knowledge, and future application. After my fiancee gets home from Afghanistan in about six weeks, we'll start perusing for apartments / duplexes around December or so and I'll have a snake room. He wants to get into the BPs with me and we want to start getting our girls to grow up while we're in school, and a few boys. With that in mind, I have some questions for us and some miscellaneous morph questions:

1.) Are black pastel and cinnamon the same gene on different lines, like lesser and butter? They don't really look it, but their derived morphs look similar.

2.) Why does super cinnamon and super black pastel cause deformities? What is the ratio of this? Are there any other black snakes? Does a "duck bill" affect quality of life? I've never actually seen one.

3.) I don't understand "het red axanthic". It's a visual, why is it called het? Is there no super form, or is it lethal and that's why we see no "red axanthics"?

4.) How do you have a 66% poss het? 100% het x 100% het = 50% poss het for non visual babies right? Where does the percentage 66 come from? Or is that backwards?

5.) Is it dangerous to keep different snake species in the same room? I saw somewhere on the QT procedure thread that someone doesn't keep their boa in the same room as their pythons.

6.) Our projected end snake amount is 2.7 snakes. Males are butter ghost and bumlbebee, females are: mojave het ghost, pastave, 2 normals, bumblebee het ghost, pastel ghost, and yellowbelly. Is this okay? Do you think we should have another male, can they handle 3-4 females each? Something missing in our gene pool that you would add? We would love to get a leopard male, and may do that depending on our funds... I think we probably will though.

7.) How do you know a snake is ready to breed... I've heard of some people doing cool spells or putting males together to stimulate hormones, and some don't... Do you just go by weight? Snakes don't have a "heat", do they? Just after a female is bred, THEN she starts her process of ovulation and whatnot?

8.) We're building our own racks... I found a great guide on YouTube for inexpensive racks that use melamine, which I know is heavy, but we won't be moving them much. The goal initially is to build a 9 tub 41qt rack, and then a smaller rack that holds a number of 28qt and a number of shoebox tubs. Do you have a better suggestion?

9.) I'm learning as much as I can about breeding rats from the forum. Any tips and tricks or something not often mentioned that I should be sure to look into? Is there a certain source I should get rats from? Also, great references for building rat racks?

By the way, we're not getting everything at once. Don't worry we're taking it slow and learning But I like to know everything in advance. We have a great opportunity to start off with some great morphs and combos to start, and I want to make sure we do everything right and we're making the right calls. By the way, I was looking for used mini fridges with clear doors for future converting into an incubator (we can at least have one pairing this year / early next year with my bee and adult normal), and I'm having awful luck. I have found old winecoolers though. Same difference?

[Mike41793]

1.) Are black pastel and cinnamon the same gene on different lines, like lesser and butter? They don't really look it, but their derived morphs look similar.

2.) Why does super cinnamon and super black pastel cause deformities? What is the ratio of this? Are there any other black snakes? Does a "duck bill" affect quality of life? I've never actually seen one.

3.) I don't understand "het red axanthic". It's a visual, why is it called het? Is there no super form, or is it lethal and that's why we see no "red axanthics"?

4.) How do you have a 66% poss het? 100% het x 100% het = 50% poss het for non visual babies right? Where does the percentage 66 come from? Or is that backwards?

5.) Is it dangerous to keep different snake species in the same room? I saw somewhere on the QT procedure thread that someone doesn't keep their boa in the same room as their pythons.

6.) Our projected end snake amount is 2.7 snakes. Males are butter ghost and bumlbebee, females are: mojave het ghost, pastave, 2 normals, bumblebee het ghost, pastel ghost, and yellowbelly. Is this okay? Do you think we should have another male, can they handle 3-4 females each? Something missing in our gene pool that you would add? We would love to get a leopard male, and may do that depending on our funds... I think we probably will though.

7.) How do you know a snake is ready to breed... I've heard of some people doing cool spells or putting males together to stimulate hormones, and some don't... Do you just go by weight? Snakes don't have a "heat", do they? Just after a female is bred, THEN she starts her process of ovulation and whatnot?

8.) We're building our own racks... I found a great guide on YouTube for inexpensive racks that use melamine, which I know is heavy, but we won't be moving them much. The goal initially is to build a 9 tub 41qt rack, and then a smaller rack that holds a number of 28qt and a number of shoebox tubs. Do you have a better suggestion?

9.) I'm learning as much as I can about breeding rats from the forum. Any tips and tricks or something not often mentioned that I should be sure to look into? Is there a certain source I should get rats from? Also, great references for building rat racks?

I have found old winecoolers though. Same difference?

First off, thank you to your fiancé for serving our country. I hope the next 6months go by quickly without much excitement and he gets home safely.

1.) I can't tell you the history of them but a nice cinny looks WAY different than a nice bp. You can see differences in their combos too. They are allelic though, like lesser and butter. Imo, lesser and butter are two lines of the same gene. There are lessers that look like butters and vice versa. I call BS on anyone who can tell them apart with certainty. You CAN tell cinnies and bps apart though, that's why i think they're different. Some of this is just my opinion so don't anyone start a debate over this in this thread.

2.) They just do. Certain genes just have issues. There are threads that have lists of genes and issues. Its like spiders wobbling, super champagnes and spider champagnes being lethal, caramels kinking, etc. Duck billing is a jaw deformity. Either the top is a little big and/or the bottom jaw is a little smaller, it makes it look like a ducks bill sorta. In extreme cases it can effect quality of life, but there's also a lot of cases of the snakes living perfectly normal lives with it. Since it's attached to that combo specifically, breeding a healthy duck billed animal is ok. It's not something that would be passed onto the babies. A duck billed super cinny to a pastel or spider would be fine. (Unless you breed it to a cinny or bp and have a shot at producing more supers).

3.) Its a poorly chosen name. HRA is a codom and the super is the Red Axanthic. They're not super common, but they're out there. Its like how some people call yellowbellies "het. highways, het. super stripes, or het. ivories".

4.) No. Think het albino to het albino. Each egg has a 1/4 chance at being albino. So if that egg hatches and doesn't end up as an albino it will hatch and look normal, you KNOW its obviously not an albino. So the other three choices are het albino, het albino, or normal (remaining choices from the original 4 options). Since you already ruled out it isn't albino there is now a 2/3 chance that the normal looking baby is a het albino. 2/3=.66= 66% poss het. (Im using the words choices and options to make it (hopefully) easier to understand, but its really all chances and odds. You don't get a choice, neither does the baby haha).

5.) As long as they've been QT'd separately it's fine, imo. I only have balls so i can't really answer this question from experience.

6.) So the genes you want to start out with are: spider, pastel, mojo, butter, yellowbelly and hypo? I feel like there's a lot of overlap in there and you could get the same genes in less snakes and get more for your money. I could tell you how i would do it differently but i dont wanna sound like i'm telling you what to do if you don't wanna hear it haha. One male for 3-4 girls is ok as long as everyone's QT'd for the right amount of time and he gets rest in between. It really depends on the male, you'd have to gauge it by ear. More like by hands and eyes in this case though.

7.) i just started pairing when they hit the weight i felt comfortable with. They'll either be ready and go, or they wont. Waiting never hurts if you feel they aren't ready. There are threads on here that talk about the process and steps and what not. You're correct though, she'll ovy after you start pairing. After she ovy's she won't be interested in the male anymore, he's already done his job.

8.) My opinion: do not build a 9 tub melamine rack if you ever expect to move it haha. It's MUCH more worth it to just save up for a professionally made pvc rack imo. 41qts are only necessary for big females, like over 2,000grams. All my girls are in 32qt tubs and still have plenty of room. Buying babies and putting them in a 41qt tub is asking for a problem feeder lol. I'd get 2 (4tub) RBI sweaterbox racks which use (vision brand) 32qt tubs. You can buy dividers for the tubs to turn one 32qt into a 16qt tub. (the dividers are removable). A 16qt tub is much better for baby snakes you'll get than a 41qt tub. They're $299.99 a piece with belly heat. I'd buy one rack to start (and buy the dividers) and as your babies get bigger and are ready for 32qt tubs just save up and get a 2nd rack to stack right on top the first one. Is $600 a lot more than it'd cost for a melamine rack? Yes. Is it worth it imo though? Absolutely. Easier to clean and move around if you want to. And when you guys outgrow that townhouse and decide to move, you can thank me. Because moving the pvc racks will be 1000x easier than moving the melamine one. You wouldn't be able to move the melamine one without taking it apart, i can guarantee it haha.

9.) Can't help, i don't breed rats. I think there's threads about how to build the racks for them in the Feeders Sub Forum.

Yep, same thing. A converted wine cooler would work fine as an incubator.

[T&C Exotics]

Ok I will answer in order to the best of my abilities on all of the questions.

1. This is opinion. Some say they are the same others say they are different. I feel they are different.

2. Yes they do it is duckbilling or pinched faces. I think it does impact the snakes so I would not work with them in the super form. Ratio as far as I know is not known.

3. Het red axanthic is a codom morph the super is red axanthic and they are all over the place. Not a whole lot of people work with them but they are one of my favorites. You can see them from Corey Woods on his website as well as Ralph Davis and a ton of others. You can also look on worldofballpythons.com

4. 66% het is from 100% hit x 100% het. If I were to breed a 100% het albino to 100% het albino I would on average get 1 albino 2 hets and 1 normal. So of the 3 visually normal animals 2 of them are het 1 is not.. 50% het is from het to normal breeding. 100% is from visual x het or visual x normal.

5. Generally no but there are risks. Some species carry diseases that do not impact them but do other species. I may be mistaken here but that was my take on it so when I have multiple species I keep them separate.

6. That is a great starting group but the only way to tell if it is lacking anything is if you want anything else. In the past I have had males breed 5+ females so the ratio is fine.

7. Weight and age. Males are generally 500ish grams and 9ish months old. Females are 1500ish grams and 3ish years old. I say ish because there is no exact number honestly. As to ovulation. It takes place after mating.

8. I used what you have here for a long time and I like it. The only thing I would change of it is using a lighter material but that really is not a big issue in the end. Cost is low and keeping them clean is easy.

9. Rats IMO should only be purchased from a reputable person who breeds them. Not a pet store or anything like that. I always get rats first and get them breeding and then get snakes. That way you always have food for snakes and just sell off extra. As to building a rack there are a bunch on here and they work great. This is the one I used http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-a-Rodent-Rack and it was perfect for me at the time.

I hope I covered everything for you and anything I left out I know more people will cover. Feel free to ask anything else we are all here to teach and learn.

[paulh]

3.) I don't understand "het red axanthic". It's a visual, why is it called het? Is there no super form, or is it lethal and that's why we see no "red axanthics"?

Standard genetics definitions:
Homozygous = the two genes in a gene pair are the same.
Heterozygous = the two genes in a gene pair are NOT the same.

A het red axanthic ball python has a red axanthic mutant gene paired with a normal gene. Those two genes are not the same. Therefore, the gene pair is heterozygous. By extension, a snake with a heterozygous gene pair is also heterozygous.

A heterozygous snake may or may not look normal. It depends on the genes. In this case a het red axanthic ball python does not look normal. The belief that all hets look normal is a holdover from the days when all mutant genes were recessive to their respective normal genes. Those days are long over, but herper genetics terminology has mostly not caught up. It has with the red axanthic mutant.

[MootWorm]

Everyone's pretty much covered all the points, so I'll just add my bit regarding rats. I've gotten all of my rats off of Craigslist. Most are from feeder or hobby pet breeders. I just make sure the rats are clean, healthy, no visual signs of illness or mites. Haven't had a problem yet. I personally like the 'interesting' ones, so sometimes I spend a bit more than your typical feeder, but I can then sell the extras for pets to make the big bucks lol. I actually just got a free hairless female the other day off CL Keep an eye out for good ads, if it seems sketchy, it probably is!

[Mike41793]

Standard genetics definitions:
Homozygous = the two genes in a gene pair are the same.
Heterozygous = the two genes in a gene pair are NOT the same.

A het red axanthic ball python has a red axanthic mutant gene paired with a normal gene. Those two genes are not the same. Therefore, the gene pair is heterozygous. By extension, a snake with a heterozygous gene pair is also heterozygous.

A heterozygous snake may or may not look normal. It depends on the genes. In this case a het red axanthic ball python does not look normal. The belief that all hets look normal is a holdover from the days when all mutant genes were recessive to their respective normal genes. Those days are long over, but herper genetics terminology has mostly not caught up. It has with the red axanthic mutant.

The thing is... It's a codom mutation and the term "heterozygous" is usually used for recessives. Since axanthic is recessive and the gene was named red axanthic, he probably called them HRA's to avoid confusion. It just created more confusion though. It's a codom morph, not recessive, he probably shouldn't have used the term "het".

[toyota89]

I have two of these racks. They work great.
http://www.arbreptiles.com/cages/rat_rack/ratrack.shtml

Sent from my Droid RAZR M using Tapatalk 2