Leonardo is sick, swelling/bleeding...

[zwhitman]

I am very sorry to hear how this turned out. I really thought with how quickly the swelling would come and go, that it had to be air under the skin. Did your vet give any insight into how the tumor caused such drastic changes in swelling? Bleeding internally? Did you submit the tumor for histopathology to find out what kind of tumor it is? It is unusual to see cancer in such a young snake. Although now that I say that, the only other heart based tumor I have ever personally seen was in a 4 year old kingsnake.

One last thought... you may want to reconsider keeping and breeding offspring from this snake. I recognize that he was a beloved animal and it is tempting to keep that memory alive via his bloodline. However he also had a very strange cancer and there is no way to know if his offspring might be predisposed to a similar condition.

[Inarikins]

One last thought... you may want to reconsider keeping and breeding offspring from this snake. I recognize that he was a beloved animal and it is tempting to keep that memory alive via his bloodline. However he also had a very strange cancer and there is no way to know if his offspring might be predisposed to a similar condition.

The (one?) female he was bred to is gravid. She's already said she is going to keep all the offspring and watch for signs of the same thing happening. I can't imagine Rosey would ever sell a snake that she thought there might be a chance of it developing cancer later in life due to a genetic defect, especially after losing her own in such a way. Leonardo was an amazing animal and what would you have her do? Throw out a clutch of eggs produced by an amazing, favored snake just because there's a chance the offspring might have the same issue? If they do, then none of those offspring will be bred and that will be the end of that. If not, then she's got babies of a snake that was lost due to cancer and while it won't be able to ever make up the difference, at least she may have a baby she can look at and go 'yeah, that's him'.

[RoseyReps]

I am very sorry to hear how this turned out. I really thought with how quickly the swelling would come and go, that it had to be air under the skin. Did your vet give any insight into how the tumor caused such drastic changes in swelling? Bleeding internally? Did you submit the tumor for histopathology to find out what kind of tumor it is? It is unusual to see cancer in such a young snake. Although now that I say that, the only other heart based tumor I have ever personally seen was in a 4 year old kingsnake.

One last thought... you may want to reconsider keeping and breeding offspring from this snake. I recognize that he was a beloved animal and it is tempting to keep that memory alive via his bloodline. However he also had a very strange cancer and there is no way to know if his offspring might be predisposed to a similar condition.

The swelling was in fact blood, as every time I examined his mouth while swollen, there would be hemorrhaging/bleeding, yet when he was not swollen, there was no sign of blood coming out of his mouth. I did not submit the tumor personally for any testing, he (vet) mentioned the probable type, but I cannot remember it now. I cannot say whether he did more testing or not, as I gave him permission to do as he wished with Leo after the euthanasia.

As for your second suggestion, while I appreciate the the concern, we have thought of this. None of his offspring (if we get any) will be sold until after their first birthday (assuming they do not show any growths) and will be sold with full information of Leo's medical history. If we happen to get another "Leo", he will be tested regularly to see if any growths are present prior to breeding, and will not be bred until after his second birthday. The breeder we purchased Leo from said he has never seen anything like this, from either parent, past clutches, or from his clutch mates. That of course does not guarantee it is not genetic, but we can hope.