i am thinking about breeding rats and have some questions

[cinnamonpython]

hello every one i have recently realized that as a minor i can no longer afford to feed the appropriate sized rats to my snakes and i do not want my parents to pay for them. (i have 5 snakes and am planing on breeding) I have been looking around the internet and understand the basis but i have a few questions for you guys.

How long does it take to get the rats to medium to large?

Do i have to worry about diseases?

How many rat pairs should i get?

How long does it take to get a steady flow of rats?

[I-KandyReptiles]

If you can't afford to feed properly sized rats, how will you be able to feed your rats the proper food, and care for them until they reach the size you need..

[cinnamonpython]

i am looking for the most economical way to feed my snakes. from what i have learned breeding is cheaper than buying f/t and better quality.

[satomi325]

How long does it take to get the rats to medium to large?

About 7-10+ weeks roughly. I guess it depends on what you define as large.

Do i have to worry about diseases?

No. Just keep your enclosures clean and well ventilated. Otherwise they can get RI.

How many rat pairs should i get?

Rule of thumb is have as many breeder female rats as snakes. So for you, 5 females. You may have to adjust to add or subtract accordingly to your schedule and breeding system.

How long does it take to get a steady flow of rats?

Maybe 2-3 months from starting.

I put my rats on a schedule where I rotate the male down the rack every 2 weeks. So every 2 weeks he sees another pair of girls.
This gives me the perfect amount to feed my snakes without having too many extras.

Rat litters average around 10-15 pups for me. So that gives me food of the right size for 2 weeks. When those rats have been fed off, the next 2 litters are ready to feed off.
You have to find a system that works for you.


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[sorraia]

Cheaper or not will depend on a number of factors:
cost of live feeders in your area
cost of f/t ordered online in bulk (if your snakes will eat f/t)
cost of supplies to breed feeders

In my area live feeders cost $3-4 each for small rats. Bulk f/t ordered online and shipped would be cheaper, but I have no desire to have another freezer in my house and no room in my current 21cu ft freezer for that kind of order. So I breed my own. The rack cost around $50 to build. I buy Native Earth from Amazon.com for $0.70 a pound (200 pound quantity at one time). A local store has bedding available for $5.99 for large bales (I forget exact size, need to check, lasts about 2 months each bale, cleaning out bins once a week). For me it is more economical to go ahead and breed, besides knowing what the rats go through and how they are raised.

I currently have 2 breeding males and 7 breeding females, along with 2 potential breeder males and 4 potential breeder females (2 might end up getting culled). I don't hold back babies from every litter, but if one has something I like, or the mom is especially good, I'll hold back a baby. My rats started out as smalls - which is best since you know they are younger and not used up breeders who aren't going to produce for you. It took them a couple months to get to size, and since then I've been pairing up 2 females with the males every 1-2 weeks. I've been able to produce a steady supply of rats for my snakes doing it this way. Since my snakes eat pre-killed or f/t I can stock up instead of having to keep rats around at the right size all the time. Other people use a harem type breeding program. I prefer pairing up males with females at specific times so I know which females are pregnant and when their litters are due. It's a personal choice, and neither one really works better than the other, though my methods may take just a little more effort (just a couple extra minutes to pair or separate males and females).

By about 4-5 weeks my rats are growing to 100 grams. My holdbacks from my first litter are almost 250 grams, and about 2.5 months old. So to grow medium to large rats, expect to keep them around at least a few months. If you get young rats, you'll probably be looking at 4-6 months before your produced rats are big enough to start feeding your snakes. During that time you'll not only be caring for your breeders, but also the rats you are raising to feed your snakes. Consider all of that into your costs, compared to the cost of buying freeders ready to go.

[cinnamonpython]

thanks for the info satomi325 and sorraia but i have one more question. How do i kill them i want to use a co2 chamber but are there other humane methods?

[satomi325]

thanks for the info satomi325 and sorraia but i have one more question. How do i kill them i want to use a co2 chamber but are there other humane methods?

Cervical dislocation(breaking the neck) is the only other humane way.

Honestly, you probably don't need to feed large rats to your ball pythons. That's a bit on the big side in my opinion. Most feed smalls and mediums to their adults. I personally feed smalls(70-100g) to all of my breeding adults weekly. Maybe even biweekly if I'm trying to get a snake to gain some extra size.

But it doesn't take as long to wait for the rats to grow up if you feed smalls/mediums or even 2 smalls at a time. Rat growth is pretty fast in the first 5 weeks of their life then it starts tapering and slows down. They get to small size really fast, but waiting for that large is significantly longer due to that slowing of growth.

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[sorraia]

thanks for the info satomi325 and sorraia but i have one more question. How do i kill them i want to use a co2 chamber but are there other humane methods?

I started out with a gas chamber and dry ice to produce the CO2. It worked, but the dry ice can get kind of pricey (especially if you only have a few rats to dispatch). We are now trying cervical dislocation (had someone show us how to do it properly), and it works well, with no added cost. If we have to go back to the gas chamber for some reason, we'll use a CO2 tank instead of dry ice.

Honestly, you probably don't need to feed large rats to your ball pythons. That's a bit on the big side in my opinion. Most feed smalls and mediums to their adults. I personally feed smalls(70-100g) to all of my breeding adults weekly. Maybe even biweekly if I'm trying to get a snake to gain some extra size.

But it doesn't take as long to wait for the rats to grow up if you feed smalls/mediums or even 2 smalls at a time. Rat growth is pretty fast in the first 5 weeks of their life then it starts tapering and slows down. They get to small size really fast, but waiting for that large is significantly longer due to that slowing of growth.

Ditto this. My largest snakes (around 800 grams) are eating rats around 100-110 grams, ,which were about 5 weeks old when they were dispatched. My smallest pythons (300 grams) are eating 3-4 week old rats (I haven't weighed those rats).

[MootWorm]

Great breakdown of your cost, Sorraia! I just wanted to illustrate that startup costs for breeding will cost about 4-6 months worth of feeders (depending on what you pay). I know I've got a couple hundred invested in my rats, and they've only just started to offset the cost by selling my excess. But I wanted fancy ones, so I also paid a bit more for some of mine.

[sorraia]

I checked the bale size for my bedding. It's 3cu ft compressed, and about 8 cu ft expanded.

Oh and to add to what i already said...
One local pet store sells small rats for $3 each, but has a "mouse card" where you buy 12 feeders (rat or mouse, doesn't matter what size) and get the 13th free. While waiting for my rats to start producing, I'd buy up a couple dozen small rats (or whatever they had on hand), dispatch and freeze them for the mean time. Got a couple free rats that way.