2 new additions not feeding regularly, long post

[Dragonviper]

If you guys have seen my other threads you know that I always have an eye out to expand my collection. About a month ago I decided to pick up a female pastel 50 % het pied (with markers/ringers) and a male firefly from Justin Kobylka. The transaction was great and the animals are absolutely beautiful. I was told that the male firefly (hatched on May 23 2012) used to feed regularly on rats but that he had become pickier a few months back and started eating live mice 2x a month. This is the male that he said was the nicest he has produced and before I decided on him I checked another firefly that was available and a better feeder, but he wasn't nearly as bright or clean as the firefly that is mine now. The female pastel 50% het pied w/markers was feeding regularly on live rats and was hatched in November 2013 (unsure of the date because he bought it from a friend when she hatched). They were both in the 350 gram range when I got them on 6/6/13.

I have an OD female (hatched august 22 2013) that I bought in may (approx. 1 month before this firefly and pastel 50% het pied). She was 510 grams when I received her and feeding on live mice. I was able to switch her over to FT weanling rats the first time I tried. She, unlike my male pied and pastel female, likes to have her rat placed at the opening of her hide and will not attack it if the rat is "zombie dancing". She is now pushing 700g and has shifted over to this method of feeding quite nicely. Since I had this big OD girl that had long been established on mice (as well as gradually switching my pied male and pastel female from mice to rats) I did feel comfortable in being able to get the male firefly onto rats....keyword is DID. [I feed FT rats to my snakes so from here on out if I refer to rats/food I am referring to FT rat weanling's (30-50g). I also feed them 1 a week with a prey item that is approx. 10% of their weight]

The male firefly and pastel poss het pied female were offered food the 2nd day they arrived (6/7/13). They were housed in 28 qt tubs- hot spot at 90-92 F, cool side 79-80F, 55-60% humidity with a hide on the hot side and crumbled paper on the cold side. I did check to see if they were thermoregulating properly because they don't have identical hides but they did go to each end and seemed unbothered by the different hides. I barely put the FT rat into the tub and she went for it. The male seemed to be afraid of the FT weanling rat and it's zombie dance so I left him alone. I thought that maybe he was stressed out so I didn't bother him until I noticed the male shed (6/12/13). I hadn't noticed because he didn't appear dark/cloudy at all. When I attempted to feed on 6/13/12 he didn't go for it and its zombie dance so I left it at the mouth of his hide overnight. The female pastel poss het pied went into shed that week and although she was offered food and had it left in with her overnight, she didn't go for it either. During the next feeding on 6/20/13, the pastel pos het pied female had already shed out and pooped, she was offered a rat but she didn't go for it and the firefly male didn't either. On 6/27/13 I tried something more drastic to get one meal into the firefly male. Early that day I removed his hides and just left him his water bowl until feeding time. I threw towels over his whole enclosure to make sure it stayed dark during the day. I made sure the rat he got was a bit bloody had tried once again to get him to strike at the rat but he didn't, although he was flicking his tongue more than previous feedings. I left it with him again for a while (offered rat initially at 10 pm and left it with him until 2 am) but he didn't feed. The pastel female was offered food that day as well but I spooked her when I opened up the tub lid and once she retreated into her hide she didn't pay attention to the rat and, unsurprisingly, didn't take it once it was left with her. The day after this feeding I moved the male firefly into a V-70 rack since it is fully enclosed and put 2 identical hides in there with him. I tried this to see if the added security might get him to eat (temperature and humidity is practically the same as his previous tub). Yesterday, 7/4/13, I offered food to my female pastel poss het pied and male firefly in pretty much complete darkness with very warm(102 F), slightly bloody rats as a last resort. I placed the rat in with the female and because it was dark, the rat accidentally hit her back/side and she hissed. I maneuvered the rat so it was facing her and she struck at it defensively (didn't try to constrict). She moved her head and I followed it with the rat but she struck at it defensively 2 more times before I thought that she was getting too stressed and left the rat with her. The male firefly was in the cool end of his tub with his head only slightly sticking out of his hide but when I slowly opened the tub he stuck his head back in. I put the rat in the opening of his hide and left it overnight. I checked this morning and neither one went for the rat. The male passed the smallest poop I've ever had a ball python pass yesterday so he is empty but not eating.

I don't know how much longer I can hold out. I have heard that they aren't stupid and will not starve themselves to death but that's what I feel that they are doing. I think that since my first 3 were such great feeders I was bound to end up facing the picky balls eventually. I think the only way to kick start them to feed is to feed them live (small mouse for him and a rat pup for her) and then work my way to FT mice/rats and hopefully FT rats exclusively. Any tips would be greatly appreciated...I would like to hold out as much as possible because I don't want to feed live unless it's my last resort. They have lost about 5-7 grams but I am going nuts. I'm worried because the female is less than a yr old and the male is pretty small for being over 1 yr old. The only thing I haven't tried is scenting the rat for the firefly but I think he would be more likely to eat if it was a live mouse and I would be able to save that FT rat for my other snakes instead of having to throw it out.

[Rickys_Reptiles]

Hey.

Wow, you weren’t kidding, that was a novel!

A few things to consider.

1) Both snakes know how to eat, and have had several meals.
2) It sounds like both ate live in the past, not f/t
3) They are in a new habitat

I would find out what substrate they were kept on before and put them back onto that until they start to feed more regularly. I'd also put them back on live mice as they were before. Once both are feeding more regularly, make small changes. Start with the substrate. Switch it to whatever you're using, but continue to feed on live mice. Then, after a few feedings feed a smaller live mouse, then try a small f/t rat. If they take both, then keep feeding f/t. If they don't eat for a month, don't panic. Just keep offering once a week. Do not start changing how you feed them, do not switch the tubs - those things just create stress. SMALL changes are the key.

[Dragonviper]

Sorry about that. I've seen people on the other forums ask specific questions so I thought I'd get the details out of the way early. I have them on newspaper and I am pretty sure they were on unprinted newspaper before, I'll double check with the breeder. I'll just start them off live and see how that goes.

[FireStorm]

Hey.

Wow, you weren’t kidding, that was a novel!

A few things to consider.

1) Both snakes know how to eat, and have had several meals.
2) It sounds like both ate live in the past, not f/t
3) They are in a new habitat

I would find out what substrate they were kept on before and put them back onto that until they start to feed more regularly. I'd also put them back on live mice as they were before. Once both are feeding more regularly, make small changes. Start with the substrate. Switch it to whatever you're using, but continue to feed on live mice. Then, after a few feedings feed a smaller live mouse, then try a small f/t rat. If they take both, then keep feeding f/t. If they don't eat for a month, don't panic. Just keep offering once a week. Do not start changing how you feed them, do not switch the tubs - those things just create stress. SMALL changes are the key.

^This advice is spot on. I've always had better luck changing one thing at a time. Sometimes changing from live to f/t and mice to rats all at once is too much.