Questions about kinked caramels and breeding

[bonsay]

Does this kinking ever showed up in caramel albino morphs ? things like caramel spider or caramel glow ? if it doesnt then its probably safe to say that we could avoid kinking by not breeding caramel x caramel ?? im no expert just curious

[OhhWatALoser]

Does this kinking ever showed up in caramel albino morphs ? things like caramel spider or caramel glow ? if it doesnt then its probably safe to say that we could avoid kinking by not breeding caramel x caramel ?? im no expert just curious

yes,yes,no

[Davidsherps]

so it would be safe to try a 1.0 pastel carmel albino x 100% het carmel 0.1? both from same person,

[inornatus]

I bred Pastel Het. Caramel x Het. Caramel this year and had Caramel and Pastel Caramel from this and both have kinks No kinks in Pastels and Normals from this clutch. Year earlier got non Caramels from this paring but Pastels and Normals where fine. Next year I will try with low temp and humidity maybe this is the clue.

[Got Balls?]

Is it true about incubating caramels at little cooler temps helps with their kinking issues?

Sent from Samsung Galaxy Note 2

[joebad976]

I have a het to het pairing due to hatch on 7/17. I am incubating them at 87.5 degrees in hopes of achieving a kink free clutch with the lower temps. I guess we shall wait and see.

[dr del]

Is it true about incubating caramels at little cooler temps helps with their kinking issues?

Sent from Samsung Galaxy Note 2

To be honest probably not.

There are very few things we, as keepers, can change within the development/ incubation process and every one of them has so far been touted as the cure to every genetic problem discovered in every morph so far.

It hasn't worked for any of them.

No matter what the problem you will see people trot out "lower/ higher incubation temps", "lower/ higher cage temps while gravid", "lower/ higher humidity in the egg box" and "supplemental feeding of the prey item"

It's not because they have done a single thing in the past it is simply because that is all they can do.

It didn't cure deserts, spiders, pearls, duckbills, bug eyes, kinks or anything else.

Eventually you realise it's all BS and greed. Depressing but true.


dr del

[PiedPeddler]

To be honest probably not.

There are very few things we, as keepers, can change within the development/ incubation process and every one of them has so far been touted as the cure to every genetic problem discovered in every morph so far.

It hasn't worked for any of them.

No matter what the problem you will see people trot out "lower/ higher incubation temps", "lower/ higher cage temps while gravid", "lower/ higher humidity in the egg box" and "supplemental feeding of the prey item"

It's not because they have done a single thing in the past it is simply because that is all they can do.

It didn't cure deserts, spiders, pearls, duckbills, bug eyes, kinks or anything else.

Eventually you realise it's all BS and greed. Depressing but true.


dr del

I have to chime in to disagree with dr del here. I understand we do not have a sound statistical data set to prove that lower incubation temperatures can reduce kinking in visual Caramels, but at the same time, the lack of that data set precludes his claim that "it hasn't worked for any of them", and I do not agree that "it's all BS and greed". What I see is the generally shared view based on many dedicated hobbyist and breeder anecdotal reports that lower incubation temperatures appear to reduce the likelihood of kinking in visual Caramels. In our personal experience, we have incubated below 88 deg F and our Caramels came out great. Therefore, any time we have Caramel eggs going into the incubator, we make sure the temp is below 88 deg F. Even if we get a kinked one in the future, I will be inclined to believe that we could have had more if we were incubating higher.

Paul

[RandyRemington]

Eventually you realise it's all BS and greed. Depressing but true.

I still believe some of the reports from breeders who claim long strings of no kinked caramels. I'm not at all sure they know why it is happening but if it does happen then there must be some difference behind it and my bet is on environmental over genetics based on no reports of their customers having similar luck.

I would characterize the grasping at straws as more hope for a really nice looking morph than greed. I produced 1.2 caramels last year with only a slight kink in the tail of one of the females. I actually gave the perfect girl away but did eventually sell the other one cheap with a discussion of the tendency for caramel females to lay slugs. I'm still working this project because I was blown away by how nice they look and I still have some hope of a way to shift the odds. Even if that does happen I don't expect the price to jump back up but it would be nice to be able to confidently work with this morph without the specter of train wrecks.