Controversial Topic but I am curious

[Skymall007]

hello everyone,

I am new here and very much in love with reptiles.

I have a controversial topic to ask about and I hope I don't get in trouble for this.

Today I learned about hybrid snakes (for example a woma python X ball python). I can hardly find any information on this and I DON'T intend to buy one or attempt to breed them. HOWEVER, I wanted to know different opinions on this matter. I have heard there is a lot against this (especially with generations 2 and on). I hope I don't cause any fire, I just want to understand people's thoughts behind this and why. I would love to hear both sides of the coin.

Thank you guys in advance =)

[Kodieh]

Go for it, walls are awesome. Woma Balls.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[catzeye21138]

The problem comes in the further generations when it's harder to distinguish that the snake is indeed a hybrid. This means someone could accidentally breed a ball that they didn't know had woma in it into a ball python breeding project. This starts to muddy up the breeding lines.

I've said it before, some agree with me and others don't, but if I were to ever breed hybrids all offspring would be microchipped and the new homes they went to would be required to sign paperwork stating that they would under no circumstance breed this animal, and if they were ever unable to care for it the animal would be returned to me.

I think hybrids can be awesome things, but only in the right hands.

[Daybreaker]

Some hybrids look cool (I actually like the looks of Bateaters) but will I ever own a hybrid or attempt to breed them? No way: I strive for pure animals. Just my preference.

[UltraViolet]

The problem comes in the further generations when it's harder to distinguish that the snake is indeed a hybrid. This means someone could accidentally breed a ball that they didn't know had woma in it into a ball python breeding project. This starts to muddy up the breeding lines.

I've said it before, some agree with me and others don't, but if I were to ever breed hybrids all offspring would be microchipped and the new homes they went to would be required to sign paperwork stating that they would under no circumstance breed this animal, and if they were ever unable to care for it the animal would be returned to me.

I think hybrids can be awesome things, but only in the right hands.

Is that possible? I thought that it was possible for members of the same Genus to be closely related enough to produce viable offspring, but only members of the same species can produce fertile offspring. That's the definition of species, actually, so I don't see how a hybrid could accidentally muddy up the gene pool.
Like mules- you can buy a mule, but it's not going to make baby mules. And if you bought it thinking it was a horse and planned on breeding it, you got ripped off.
Are snakes different? Or are the different types just significantly different morphs of the same species- and if so, how come they aren't mixing it up on their own in the wild?
This is a serious question, I really don't know and now I'm curious.

[MarkS]

People have been combining the differnt genus' of Pituophis, Lampropeltis and Elaphe (Pantherophis) for decades and the offspring are quite fertile. I'm personally against hybrids. Sure there are some interesting combinations but I've been burned before. Many years ago I bought some 'interesting' looking pine snakes which ended up being hybrids. The next generation was all over the place looks wise, if I hadn't hatched them myself I couldn't have even guessed that they were related.

[UltraViolet]

People have been combining the differnt genus' of Pituophis, Lampropeltis and Elaphe (Pantherophis) for decades and the offspring are quite fertile. I'm personally against hybrids. Sure there are some interesting combinations but I've been burned before. Many years ago I bought some 'interesting' looking pine snakes which ended up being hybrids. The next generation was all over the place looks wise, if I hadn't hatched them myself I couldn't have even guessed that they were related.

Wow, learn something new every day! I'm going to have to see if my microbiology professor can explain this. If not, I see an independent research project in my future. I can totally see the problem with hybrids- it could ultimately lead to the loss of the original 3 genera and lead to the creation of one catch-all genus.

re the plural of genus: A Roman walks into a bar and asks for a martinus. The bartender asks, "Did you mean a martini?" The Roman responds, "If I wanted a double, I would have asked for it."

[Mike41793]

People have been combining the differnt genus' of Pituophis, Lampropeltis and Elaphe (Pantherophis) for decades and the offspring are quite fertile. I'm personally against hybrids. Sure there are some interesting combinations but I've been burned before. Many years ago I bought some 'interesting' looking pine snakes which ended up being hybrids. The next generation was all over the place looks wise, if I hadn't hatched them myself I couldn't have even guessed that they were related.

I agree with this. Even if they're fertile, I wouldn't breed them, usually. If its done by someone very responsibly and on a small scale, where everything is documented, then I think thats the only time it's ok. But even then, to keep it on a small scale, I would think you'd have to euthanize animals you don't hold back to breed because if you sell them to someone then you can't guarantee they won't somehow get bred down the road. Sometimes unknowingly, like what happened to mark.^ So yea, in conclusion, I really don't see much of a point and wouldn't do it. Just because somethings possible, doesn't mean you should do it.

[Skymall007]

Thank you guys so much! I have really enjoyed reading all of the responses.

[Bluebonnet Herp]

I think when it comes to hybrids, it simply depends on the hybrid's appearance, which is probably why, I think, the breeders breed them. If the hybrid looks like a 50/50 of the parents or their own species, the hybrid can be considered a success, as there is no mistaking them for another species. For example, you would have to be blind or dumb to mistake a bateater for either a burmese python or a reticulated python. The possibility of them threatening the future lineages of the species are slim. However, animals that are closely related, phylogenetically, should be restrained from breeding. This includes integrades, such as the different subspecies of carpet pythons and diamond pythons, or closely related species such as short-tailed pythons, and the corn snake complex. The resulting hybrids (or integrades) are more-so failures, as they look too similar to either parent, and pose a threat to future offspring's purity when someone naive breeds them. Also, they loose the main point in breeding hybrids, since offspring don't look completely different, and the hybrid novelty isn't really with them. They aren't interesting as hybrids go.
Point in case, I find extreme examples of hybrids acceptable, such as bateaters, walls, and superballs. I even agree they should be bred to produce 50/50 F2 generations and so forth. I would definitely own, collect, and breed my own hybrids. I'm a bit iffy when it comes to breeding hybrids back to one related species, but in some extreme case hybrids, even the resulting hybrids look like they have something bizarre in their genetics going on, and even the snake noob couldn't mistake them for a pure species. I'm not sure I would produce those though.
After all, hybrids definitely work in the end. It sure did work for domestic cats, whom, among being selectively bred European Wildcats for domestic mutations, were further mixed with African Wildcats and developed their own species, leaving us with the infamous Felis catus. (I believe it should still be classified as a subspecies of Felis silvestris but that's a different scientific discussion.)