My personal thoughts on hatchlings with tangled cords

[SquamishSerpents]

Another thread has sparked me to post about my theory on tangled umbilical cords in hatchling ball pythons. So I apologize if you are having deja-vu while reading this!

When I used to cut clutches, (because I had seen eeeeeeveryone do it, and its "the norm" in ball python breeding) I had a few twisted cords.

Since I stopped cutting completely I have had none of these issues.

Of course this isn't a fact nor cold hard evidence that twisted umbilicus are a direct result of cutting, but I have reasonably concluded it may be a cause and this has led me PERSONALLY to choose not to cut.

Hear me out.

My theory is that when an egg is cut, especially if you remove a large portion of it as though you are carving a pumpkin, the snake has a lot more "wiggle room" for the duration of their yolk digesting period. Perhaps when a snake pips through the membrane after an egg has been cut, they utilize this extra wiggle room, poke out further, and generally "stretch" themselves more than if the egg had remained closed or mostly closed.

Also, of course once you cut the eggs and see what has developed inside, "YAY YAY YAY you think you hit your combo!" But you just can't be certain until the snake fully emerges. So, you check on the egg box a hundred times a day. Don't say this doesn't happen - we're all guilty of it!

Through the years though, I have learned patience and to let nature take its course. I only check out egg bins morning, and before bed. Sometimes once during the day if I really can't help myself. Minimal interference time during hatching = less time for the snake to be "startled" and jolt itself back into the egg. You've all seen a scared ball python ball up and hide its head underneath its body. Imagine a ball python doing that while still in the egg, with its umbilical cord and yolk just hanging around.

Sorry I know this is getting long-winded and maybe a bit jumbled up as I'm typing on my phone.

But, with more wiggle room, more back and forth in and out of the egg, I believe this gives them more time to twist themselves up in ways they would not have been able to if their egg had remained mostly closed.

I am a very, very small particle of dust in the wind in the grand scheme of ball python breeding, but like I said, that's my personal theory.

Unfortunately there are very few breeders who do not cut at all, so conducting a survey on weather they've had a tangled cord in a non-cut egg could prove to be very difficult.

Another couple of things to think about:

1) In human babies, a wrapped umbilical cord is NOT cause for concern and is actually very common. I'm a bit of a natural Birth Advocate and have been doing extensive research in that field, so I thought I would share this with you in case you wanted to read a bit more about umbilical cords and what they actually do, how common a wrapped cord actually is, and how it is NOT a cause for concern. Link here: Nuchal Cords

2) Corn snake breeders do NOT cut their eggs. If they do, it is certainly not common and wide-spread like the cutting of ball python eggs. How many threads have you seen of a corn snake with a wrapped umbilical cords? Again, dust in the wind here, but I personally cannot think of one single thread or instance of a corn snake with a umbilical cord wrapped around itself. I also Googled "corn snake twisted cord" and the first term to come up was "twisted umbilical cord on ball python" the entire first page has no mention of corn snakes at all. Then I googled "corn snake wrapped umbilical cord" and I found ONE instance of a corn snake that emerged with the cord wrapped around itself. I don't have time to google every possible combination of words that may lead me to that info, but I think just from observation it's fairly safe to say that wrapped/knotted cords are FAR more common in ball pythons.

So while this isn't an official survey or anything, I would like to hear some discussion and thoughts on this, as I am very curious. And of course, I could be completely, way off-base and there could be plenty of stories of people who have had DIE's with wrapped cords that weren't artificially pipped. That's why I'm posting!

[sho220]

I'd really like to hear some input from some of the veterans here who work on a larger scale. I'm a spec of dust as well so I don't have much else to add...

[meowmeowkazoo]

I also hold a personal belief that disturbing the eggs/babies can lead to issues like this. This isn't to say that I blame the breeder when they have issues with their babies. Not at all.

However, it's part of the reason I will be letting my females naturally incubate their own clutches when they finally have them. And I won't be cutting the eggs, nor will I be candling them.

I believe that keeping the process as natural as possible, and disturbing the nest as little as possible, will yield better results.

[rlditmars]

I've only hatched one clutch of 6 eggs so far, so the sample size is nothing. I didn't cut at all. Just let them pip and exit when they were ready. Everything went perfect. I actually never have planned to cut, mostly for the reasons you speak of. I figure the species has been doing it just fine for a gozillion years without any help. Why fix what ain't broke? I have no proof of what I am about to state but it is what I believe. I have seen so many threads where there have been issues and mortality problems and it seemed in almost every instance the thread included the following, " I cut on day.......". The other factor is that in 100% of the same threads, the paint job didn't change as a result of the OP cutting it open to see it. So why not wait?

Just my $0.02

[TheSnakeGeek]

I believe that keeping the process as natural as possible, and disturbing the nest as little as possible, will yield better results.

selectively breeding genetic mutations for aesthetic purposes isn't exactly natural.

on topic: this is a very interesting theory. makes sense logically. i'm interested to hear input from a large scale breeder as well. haven't had my first clutch yet, and while i won't go as natural as maternal incubation, i don't think i'll be doing any cutting, at least not for the first clutch or two. just kinda seems like a spoiler to me. lol

[SquamishSerpents]

I have seen so many threads where there have been issues and mortality problems and it seemed in almost every instance the thread included the following, " I cut on day.......". The other factor is that in 100% of the same threads, the paint job didn't change as a result of the OP cutting it open to see it. So why not wait?

Just my $0.02

I fully agree with you! But everyone please take note, I do not want this to turn into a "cut or not to cut" debate!

[JLC]

I've seen this theory offered up before. Since I don't breed, I can't offer any personal experience or anecdotes, but I do believe the theory has strong merit and I also would be interested in hearing from anyone with a large enough pool of experience with cut and uncut eggs to offer up their point of view.

While it IS a common practice to cut ball python eggs, I think it's wrong to say "everyone" does it. IF someone is cutting eggs, they are far more likely to post pictures of it. So you see lots of pictures of cut eggs. But anyone who doesn't cut eggs isn't going to give daily updates about the eggs they didn't cut. So it only LOOKS like "everyone" is doing it, because those that don't aren't bothering to talk about it except in threads like this.

[MarkS]

I rarely have issues with tangled cords and I do cut all of my eggs, however I cut them late waiting until some have pipped on their own and generally just make small cuts instead of installing a sun roof on their eggs.

I believe that the main purpose of egg cutting is to aid the hatchling in escaping from their egg shells and not so that you can get an early peek at what's inside (although that's definately a bonus)

[Dracoluna]

I'll admit that I thought it was a bit strange that eggs were cut when I started looking into bps. Corns are where I came from and in all the time I've bred them, I think I've cut 2 eggs and that was after everyone else had pipped and I figured I'd see what was wrong with the one that hadn't. It's not unusual to have them pip 3-4 days apart. Never once had an issue with a tangled cord or if I did, I didn't know it. Logically, the argument makes sense that the more room and stress that they have, the higher the chance that there will be issues.

[rlditmars]

While it IS a common practice to cut ball python eggs, I think it's wrong to say "everyone" does it. IF someone is cutting eggs, they are far more likely to post pictures of it. So you see lots of pictures of cut eggs. But anyone who doesn't cut eggs isn't going to give daily updates about the eggs they didn't cut. So it only LOOKS like "everyone" is doing it, because those that don't aren't bothering to talk about it except in threads like this.

You make a good point.