New spider and not a hesitation...

[whispersinmyhead]

Well. I received a parcel yesterday that had two new snakes. A 885 gram female butter and a 1300 gram proven male spider.

They are both beautiful. The spider however has a pretty big wobble and loop de loop movements. I was aware he had the spider wobble but I guess I just am not sure how I feel about it now that I have witnessed it first hand. I am sure we will get used to it but I was planning on breeding him to my pastel and the new butter. I read a bunch of threads and watched videos about the spider gene and I guess I wasn't expecting it to be so drastic. My wife loves him and I do to but I am not sure i want to breed him now.

I am just kinda jotting my thoughts down to gain a little perspective. I always loved the look of spiders and their combos but I don't want to have half my snakes be dingy. Also I want to sell a few and I fear that will be long conversations with people.

I guess I am looking for a little input from first hand experience with the gene. I hear some refuse to breed wobblers and others say it is fine. Are there really spiders that only have a little "unnoticeable" wobble?

I was hoping to keep a bumble bee and a butter bee.

[4theSNAKElady]

The wobble varies from spider to spider, but its there. We have a female that has almost no wobble, only :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: her head to the side when she slithers, and then we have a male that's so bad he "corkscrews". Don't know if you can breed spiders that have less of a wobble that produce babies that have less of a wobble like the parent. But don't sweat it. Its understood in the hobby that spiders wobble. Plain and simple. Don't let the wobble discourage you. Its common, and its accepted as the norm for those guys.

[4theSNAKElady]

Why did my post get censored? I didn't say anything bad/wrong...

[Coleslaw007]

Why did my post get censored? I didn't say anything bad/wrong...

Ooooooooo you're in trooouuuuble! You said a bad word!

OP: Wobble seems to be random from what I've read, you can breed a non-wobbler and get wobbly babies and visa versa, I wouldn't be concerned. I've got a bee with no wobble and a spider with a wobble, I love them both and will breed both.

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[whispersinmyhead]

It's funny because my wife named him Igor before we even found out he had a wobble. I really like him. I think I will try and bread him to both this year. If I find a male mojave however I may try try for a BEL instead of a butter bee. I really like be look if butter bees too. I wasn't going to get two males this year because I just wanted to breed as a little family project/adventure, and see if we like it. Decisions decisions. He seems to be calming down a little now that he has had a day to settle after shipping. Stress, I read, bring it on more so it may not be as bad as when I first held him. It is definitely an experience but the more I watch him in his tub, the more I like his character.

[meowmeowkazoo]

Often the bad wobblers will grow out of it as adults. It seems to vary throughout their lives.

[whispersinmyhead]

Shipping stress may have made it a little worse as well I guess. I am just a little worried about producing a bunch of wobblers. The head tilted isn't bad at all it is the upside down and loopeddeloops that are crazy. Are the odds good that's at are just a little wobbly?

[Chkadii]

It's pretty well understood that the spider gene carries the wobble, at least within the industry. As far as selling them goes, a lot of breeders don't bring up the wobble at all unless the individual has a particularly bad case, or they advertise them as hardly having any visible wobble at all as a selling point.

If you were that taken aback by the severity of Igor's wobble, that'd be an example of a snake that you'd inform buyers about. I'd certainly prefer to know as a buyer and make an informed decision, and I think it'd protect the breeder to a degree as well- the buyer would be prepared for it and not worried that they were sold a diseased animal. Spider prices are low enough now that they will be purchased by people outside of the industry as cool looking pets- better that they know ahead of time if that's the case.

I don't personally look to get into spiders as the wobble is a turn-off for me, but a big part of that is because I just don't love the pattern enough to overcome my reservations about the wobble. Same with champagnes. On the other hand, I'd breed black pastels for supers and risk the duck bill. There are varying degrees of personal ethics in the industry, with only a few instances of nearly-unanimous avoidance, such as breeding desert females. It's up to the breeder's discretion, and the wobble is certainly an excusable trait if the popularity of spider morphs are any indication.

[MrLang]

Wobblers produce non-wobblers and vice versa.

As stated above the stress of a new home will 'trigger' it much worse. Mine corkscrewed for days when I got him but didn't after that. He does some weird stuff now but only when he's super hungry or in breeding mode.

[whispersinmyhead]

I really appreciate the input. I know this one of the topics that just keeps coming up. I knew about spider wobble and to be honest I or a pastel instead forth first because I wanted a "normal" acting snake for my first so I knew it wasn't me doing something wrong. I love the pattern so that is why I got this one.

I asked the breeder about him and he assured me he was an excellent feeder and breeder. He also said that he does have the spider wobble and he will see him laying on its side often and has the head tilt. He is a very stand up guy. I have nothing but good things to say about him. I guess I will have to see as time goes on if it something I can look past or if it is something I won't breed. I know they love normal lives. I am a bit of a perfectionist and that is probably why I am getting a touch of that buyers remorse.

Again I appreciate thoughts and feedback from both sides of the fence. It seems like widely accepted as part of the morph and something I will inform any future owners of the morph about. I have a feeling he will be our favorited member of our family as my wife has already taken a huge fondness to him. I will probably feel the same once he has acclimated and I get more hands on time with him.

Thanks.